# Sound card suggestion

## gojyo

Hi,

I have an integrated Intel sound card, which works fine but has a low quality output. So, I would like to get a decent sound card.

I'm not an audiophile and I don't need anything too expensive; of course I need something that goes along well with alsa.

I've read many threads on the forum but I found out that there aren't many suggestions about which sound card I may buy. The newer SoundBlaster model that seems to work fine is the Audigy 2/4, and besides that I've only read about the Asus Xonar.

Actually I'm a bit confused about two things:

- a hardware-mixer capable board (like the Audigy) will save me from using dmix & co? If yes, why there are a few threads where Audigy cards have problem playing more sources at the same time?

- the other card I found mentioned on the forum, the Asus Xonar, lacks hardware mixer, but seems to have a better quality. Is having dmix around worth the higher quality?

Of course, any suggestions for some other cards are really appreciated  :Smile: 

Thanks!

----------

## DaggyStyle

check either this: http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Creative_Sound_Blaster_Live_24-bit_external_%28USB%29

or this: http://www.terratec.net/en/products/Aureon_5.1_USB_MK_II_2120.html

----------

## gojyo

Thanks a lot DaggyStyle!

Anyway, both cards seem a little low profile for me: the Terratec is sold for something like $20 so I can't expect much more than my integrated card; also the Live 24! is actually a low end Audigy Value (not really a good card, and anyway worse than an Audigy 2).

I'm not sure if they have an hardware mixer too.

Thanks again anyway  :Smile: 

----------

## PaulBredbury

 *gojyo wrote:*   

> why there are a few threads where Audigy cards have problem playing more sources at the same time?

 

Because the Creative marketing dept are scumbags, who intentionally mislead customers by changing the hardware significantly under the same name. So, some models of Audigy and X-fi are *not* hardware-mixing.

You want hardware-mixing, because ALSA's dmix is still broken, after all these years.

----------

## gojyo

Hi PaulBredbury, thank you for your answer.

I agree with you when you say that hardware-mixed cards are the best solution, however I have to face the fact that, as far as I know, the only ones I could buy are the Audigy (some 2 or 4 models).

I'm sure they would play much better than my crappy integrated chipset, but according to what I've read on the Internet there are newer boards with higher quality at more or less the same price (i.e. xonar). Also, Audigy boards are not too easy to find here, I would probably have to rely on eBay and hope to get an hardware-mixed one.

I've used dmix for many years (just for stereo output, I use headphones 90% of the time and I don't have a 5.1 or higher system anyway) with no problems really.

So, maybe, getting a higher quality and easier to find card will be worth having dmix still around.

----------

## PaulBredbury

If stereo is sufficient, then get the X-fi XtremeGamer. That's what I used - it's even better than the Audigy range.

----------

## gojyo

Thanks again.  :Smile: 

For now, stereo is ok. The problem with the X-Fi models is that ALSA seems to have still some problems with them. Again, I just read the forums (this one and some other): the X-Fis seem to give some trouble, while the Xonars don't.

Both X-Fi and Xonar are ok as far as quality is concerned; can I ask if the X-Fi have hardware mixers? If not, I'd see no point in getting one of them instead of a xonar.

(BTW, is there a way to know by myself about boards hardware-mixing capabilities, maybe some web site?)

Thanks again for your help!

----------

## PaulBredbury

The normal X-fis have hardware-mixing. And the X-fi XtremeGamer has hardware-mixing. I would not be recommending them overwise!

Dmix is still broken, after all these years, with no fix in sight. Dunno why you want to give yourself the frustration of dealing with it  :Confused: 

----------

## gojyo

 *PaulBredbury wrote:*   

> Dunno why you want to give yourself the frustration of dealing with it 

 

Well, it's just because the X-Fi still has problems with Alsa and, honestly, I didn't have real issues with dmix.

One more thing: if the 5.1 output is not supported by the ALSA driver, it means that I won't be able to listen to 5.1 audio sources (like DVD, 5.1 FLACs etc.)? Sorry for being so noob ^^''

----------

## PaulBredbury

Oh God.

 *gojyo wrote:*   

> has problems with Alsa

 

Stop being as vague as you possibly can. If you read about problems on a web page, then show the URL. SHOW SOME DETAIL! How on Earth am I supposed to respond to such vagueness?

 *Quote:*   

> I didn't have real issues with dmix

 

Sure. It depends what you want to do with sound. And on luck.

However, with a hardware-mixing soundcard, you will have exactly ZERO problems with dmix, because it's not needed and not used. So its brokenness is irrelevant with a hardware-mixing soundcard.

 *Quote:*   

> listen to 5.1 audio sources

 

You can still downmix 5.1 (or whatever) to *stereo*, which is exactly what you want, with 2 speakers (or headphones).

----------

## gojyo

 *PaulBredbury wrote:*   

> Stop being as vague as you possibly can. If you read about problems on a web page, then show the URL. SHOW SOME DETAIL! How on Earth am I supposed to respond to such vagueness?

 

I'm sorry, you're absolutely right.

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-828204.html --> this is a recent thread where an Elite-Pro (should have the same XtremeGamer chipset)  is recognized but does not play.

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-792555.html --> here the user has static; doesn't specify the card model though. The linked ALSA bug is still open (https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=4736).

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-831000.html --> here the ctxfi module doesn't play 22050Hz sampled files; I remember reading the same issue on the ALSA mailing list (sorry I don't have the link anymore).

Also in the latest posts here: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-587921.html there are still some unsolved issues, like user Vaarsuvius who cannot modprobe the module.

Since there are threads where the X-Fi works and other ones where it doesn't, like the ones above, I assumed that maybe the ALSA module is still not very mature. So I was wondering if software mixing over a stable module (virtuoso, for xonar) would be less painful than hardware mixing over a less mature one (ctxfi).

----------

## PaulBredbury

 *gojyo wrote:*   

> there are threads where the X-Fi works and other ones where it doesn't

 

Well, I know from my own experience that the X-fi XtremeGamer worked fine for me with stereo/headphones, including with LADSPA plugins like bs2b.

The problem with such threads are, generally:

* Users are stupid and make every mistake imaginable

* Users don't specify which model of X-fi they are talking about - there are several models

----------

## gojyo

Hi,

thanks a lot. After reading your answers and after spending a few days searching on the Net, I've decided to go for a x-fi.

I still have to decide between the XtremeGamer (here: http://us.store.creative.com/Sound-Blaster-XFi-XtremeGamer/M/B000J1F1BI.htm) and the Titanium (here: http://us.store.creative.com/PCI-Express-Sound-Blaster-XFi-Titanium/M/B001E25KDK.htm).

Since the price is about the same, I'd like to buy the best of the two. However the Titanium uses a "slightly" different chipset (emu20k2 instead of emu20k1) and uses a PCI express slot. Does anybody have some ALSA experience with the Titanium?

----------

## Jaglover

 *gojyo wrote:*   

> Hi,
> 
> I have an integrated Intel sound card, which works fine but has a low quality output. So, I would like to get a decent sound card.
> 
> I'm not an audiophile and I don't need anything too expensive; of course I need something that goes along well with alsa. 

 

This may be a Jesuit question, but if you are not an audiophile ... maybe your onboard soundcard is fine and something else is wrong? I used to be a professional sound engineer and I can tell you right now all contemporary soundcards I've heard in action have quite satisfactory sound, at least for a non-audiophile.

----------

## gojyo

 *Jaglover wrote:*   

> This may be a Jesuit question, but if you are not an audiophile ... maybe your onboard soundcard is fine and something else is wrong? I used to be a professional sound engineer and I can tell you right now all contemporary soundcards I've heard in action have quite satisfactory sound, at least for a non-audiophile.

 

Hi, thanks for your answer.

I cannot say how much difference I will notice with a new card, but even if I'm not an audiophile I can appreciate sound quality. I can tell you that the music I hear now from my onboard card is satisfactory, but not very high. I listened to the same music CD, using the same headphones (medium range Sennheiser) with my PC and my Hi-Fi system: I can surely tell the difference!

Now, of course a soundblaster will not sound as good as a Hi-Fi system, but the point is that if I can appreciate the quality difference explained above, then I think I will aprecciate the quality boost the SB will bring as well.

----------

## PaulBredbury

You *will* appreciate the new soundcard, because your non-crappy headphones will allow your ears to hear the difference in soundcard quality.

I went through all this a few years ago, testing several soundcards. It's very pleasurable to hear the improvement  :Smile: 

I guess we are amateur audiophiles  :Very Happy: 

----------

## Jaglover

There is nothing wrong with getting a better sound card.  :Smile: 

There is something Hi-Fi equipment does and cheaper (most?) sound cards don't. Human hearing is not linear thorough audible volume range, when audio volume is lowered human ear starts losing high and low frequencies, while staying sensitive in middle range. Hi-Fi equipment compensates for this phenomena so you can hear crisp and deep sound even when volume is less than max. So technically speaking cheap sound cards may have fair sound, but due to lack of this compensation the subjective impression is much worse.

----------

