# Anyone see a server fly? [SOLVED]

## JohnerH

First and foremost,

Thank you all for all the support so far.......I wouldn't leave gentoo even if they paid me...

Right on to the problem:

I recently bought a Bull server on Ebay. Apart from the fact it was cheap it had quite an attractive prospect for what I needed to use it for.

Basically I want to converte it to a router/firewall/resync machine.

Note: the guy sold this to me on a picture basis and did not know the model or the motherboard specs, the following is what I got out of knoppix (this due to the fact that gentoo liveCD didnt pickup half the stuff for some reason)

It's a Dual Pentium II 400mhz.

Specs:

from lspci:

```

0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host bridge (AGP disabled) (rev 03)

0000:00:0d.0 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 53c875 (rev 37)

0000:00:0d.1 SCSI storage controller: LSI Logic / Symbios Logic 53c875 (rev 37)

0000:00:0f.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corp. 82557/8/9 [Ethernet Pro 100] (rev 05)

0000:00:12.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 02)

0000:00:12.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01)

0000:00:12.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01)

0000:00:12.3 Bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 02)

0000:00:14.0 VGA compatible controller: Cirrus Logic GD 5480 (rev 23)

```

lsmod:

```

Module                  Size  Used by    Not tainted

autofs4                 8756   1 

af_packet              13544   0  (autoclean)

e100                   51064   1 

serial                 52100   0  (autoclean)

pcmcia_core            39840   0 

rtc                     7036   0  (autoclean)

cloop                   8740   2 

ieee1394              183076   0 

usb-storage            61760   0  (unused)

usb-uhci               21644   0  (unused)

usbcore                57600   1  [usb-storage usb-uhci]

ataraid                 6180   0 

ncr53c8xx              51756   0 

ide-scsi                8816   1 

```

cat /proc/cpuinfo:

```

processor       : 0

vendor_id       : GenuineIntel

cpu family      : 6

model           : 5

model name      : Pentium II (Deschutes)

stepping        : 2

cpu MHz         : 399.001

cache size      : 512 KB

fdiv_bug        : no

hlt_bug         : no

f00f_bug        : no

coma_bug        : no

fpu             : yes

fpu_exception   : yes

cpuid level     : 2

wp              : yes

flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr

bogomips        : 796.26

processor       : 1

vendor_id       : GenuineIntel

cpu family      : 6

model           : 5

model name      : Pentium II (Deschutes)

stepping        : 2

cpu MHz         : 399.001

cache size      : 512 KB

fdiv_bug        : no

hlt_bug         : no

f00f_bug        : no

coma_bug        : no

fpu             : yes

fpu_exception   : yes

cpuid level     : 2

wp              : yes

flags           : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr

bogomips        : 797.90

```

And RAM:

```

        total:    used:    free:  shared: buffers:  cached:

Mem:  129667072 51503104 78163968        0  3530752 28901376

Swap:        0        0        0

MemTotal:       126628 kB

MemFree:         76332 kB

MemShared:           0 kB

Buffers:          3448 kB

Cached:          28224 kB

SwapCached:          0 kB

Active:          14628 kB

Inactive:        24524 kB

HighTotal:           0 kB

HighFree:            0 kB

LowTotal:       126628 kB

LowFree:         76332 kB

SwapTotal:           0 kB

SwapFree:            0 kB

```

The HDD is a SCSI 9.1GB Compac drive,  ULTRA SCSI - 3.

Now the problem.

I tried installing gentoo on it through Knoppix. This worked very well since knoppix picked up all the hardware (including the HDD). I went through the install (and quite fast too, it took me 8 hours for a full Stage 1 install, kewl ins't it??), no probs until it was time to reboot.......

I don't know what happen it doesn't reboot, it stops and says "Operating System not found".

One thing it does say before that is: "Symbios, Inc. PCI boot ROM, no supported devices found!". IS this relevante to my problem?

I've tried and tried to play with the SCSI controler but nothing happens, I've even been playing with the BIOS with no luck.

I'm getting desperate because it's a nice piece of hardware but I cant seem to get it up.

Note: the HDD is fine I've checked and theres no errors....

Help lads I really need to get this running, I desperatly need this for what it was bought for or else this thing is going to fly with gentoo on it, but not in the conventional manner.... :Twisted Evil: 

cheers,

J

----------

## RayDude

Are you using lilo or grub?

What does the lilo/grub.conf look like?

How did you setup the disk with lilo/grub?

It sounds like the BIOS is not seeing a boot sector on what it considers to be its boot drive. Grub can help you here, because if you run grub and type "root (hd0," and press tab it will tell you what the boot partition is.

It could be root (sd0, <tab> for scsi disks.

Post the fstab from the knoppix boot and your fstab.

Raydude

----------

## asianboi2k

he probley didn't write to the mbr.

type

knoppix:>grub

grub>root(hd0, gentoo bootpartition)

grub>setup(hd0)

grub>quit

hd0,0 = hda1

hd0,1 = hda2

and so on 

try restarting

should say something other than Operating system not found.

----------

## JohnerH

I was using GRUB...

Inicially I sed grub-install.

I'm in the process now of redoing a stage 1 install (tried putting ubunto, to see if it could automagically fix it, and even that didn't work), when I finish it, I'll redo the process as per your suggestion.

Question: 

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> It could be root (sd0, <tab> for scsi disks.
> 
> 

 

I was under the impression that for scsi disks it would be hd0 all the same?

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> he probley didn't write to the mbr.
> 
> type
> ...

 

Last time I tried it, it did say it wrote the MBR but still managed not to boot....in anycase, I will post the results of your suggestions once it's finished....

----------

## RayDude

 *JohnerH wrote:*   

> I was using GRUB...
> 
> Inicially I sed grub-install.
> 
> I'm in the process now of redoing a stage 1 install (tried putting ubunto, to see if it could automagically fix it, and even that didn't work), when I finish it, I'll redo the process as per your suggestion.
> ...

 

I'm pretty sure serial ata and scsi come up as sdx devices.

I noticed that you have ide-scsi installed, that may do some sort of conversion, but I'm not familiar with it. When you run fdisk, do you run it on hda?

Raydude

----------

## pilo

GRUB treats all disks thesame, since it acts before the kernel can assign devices.

Is the BIOS set to boot from your SCSI-disk, excuse me for asking?

Are there no errant messages when installing GRUB onto the MBR?

Did you set your boot-partition to bootable in fdisk?

----------

## stask

Hi,

Probably it's worth to check one more thing: did you set your /boot partition as bootable (command 'a' in fdisk)? 

And pilo is right - even though the device name for scsi disk is /dev/sdX, you should use hd0 in grub.

----------

## JohnerH

Lads,

No luck, this is really starting to get on my nerves....

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Is the BIOS set to boot from your SCSI-disk, excuse me for asking? 
> 
> 

 

The bios is set to boot from what it calls "Hard Drive", now there's no indication to what drive that is, I dont even know if the controler is setup right, keeping in mind this is an onboard controler and that I have no experience with scsi, I;m useless...

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Are there no errant messages when installing GRUB onto the MBR?
> 
> 

 

Nop, GRUB installed cleanlly.

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Did you set your boot-partition to bootable in fdisk?
> 
> 

 

Yep, first thing I did, even double checked it before rebooting...

I kinda get the feeling this is related with the bios / SCSI controler, anyone have any experience with this kind of hardware?

Thank you all for the support.

P.S.: I though SCSI was easy?

----------

## adaptr

Those NCR/SymBIOS cards are often not bootable - if this one is (and it seems to indicate this) then make sure that:

a) It is assigned as the first bootable device in the BIOS (you seem to have two, so make sure of this), and

b) set the boot drive on the SCSI card to the SCSI ID of the drive - or it won't use the drive to boot.

----------

## JohnerH

Well the only place the BIOS mentions SCSI is in the adaptor section, there's nothing on the boot section that mentions SCSI.

I really have no clue how to configure this....Any suggestions?

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> b) set the boot drive on the SCSI card to the SCSI ID of the drive - or it won't use the drive to boot.
> 
> 

 

Already done, the drive has ID 0...

----------

## SysOP XXL

It's not really a solution, as I have no idea what's going on there, but have you tried installing LILO instead of GRUB?

----------

## synapscape

Hi!

I don't know your hardware exactly, but SCSI tends to be quite bitchy sometimes...  :Wink:  And from here, it sounds like a BIOS problem. "Operating system not found" is not a grub message, AFAIK. These are indicated by errors like "error 14: grub could find an apple!" or sth. like that...

So, please check your PC-BIOS settings:

1) Sometimes you can choose to boot from either SCSI or IDE first. Set it to SCSI (maybe this is called boot sequence?!)

2) eliminate all other boot options in BIOS (i talking about that boot-chain thingie: floppy first, then cdrom, then hdd). Just leave harddisk as the only option. Why? Sometimes broken BIOSes falsly report a floppy as a first bootable hdd... rare thing, but who knows...?

In your SCSI-Hostadapter settings (with my Adaptec2940, i could press CTRL-A during bootup right before the adapter detects all drives to enter the SCSI-BIOS menu. With an Initio, it was CTRL-I... maybe you got this option? ), if available:

1) set your boot-device to the SCSI-ID of the disk

2) if there is the option to disable INT13-support, play with it. my 2940 was a bit bitchy with grub and an separately installed IDE-drive with INT13 enabled...

Of course, re-check your cabling and termination! Is the drive found by the adapter during bootup? if not -> check termination! also recheck all jumpers on the drive! scsi-drives can be told to spin up when explicitly told to do so, but not if the system starts cold.

SCSI always knows exactly one more way to screw things up than the machines' user can think of!  :Wink: 

Good Luck!

Markus

----------

## drwook

Do you have anything IDE in the machine, a CD drive or something, or even just IDE capability?  I had major issues booting from scsi to any OS once because my BIOS just refused to boot to scsi unless there were no IDE drives & IDE was disabled in the bios!

----------

## JohnerH

RIght....Still not working...I';m going into desper...

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Do you have anything IDE in the machine, a CD drive or something, or even just IDE capability? I had major issues booting from scsi to any OS once because my BIOS just refused to boot to scsi unless there were no IDE drives & IDE was disabled in the bios!
> 
> 

 

No ide's what so ever on tha machine, I even disconnected the IDE cable from the board that leaded to the CD-ROM.

I disable the floopy from the BIOS.

Still not good.

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> 1) Sometimes you can choose to boot from either SCSI or IDE first. Set it to SCSI (maybe this is called boot sequence?!) 
> 
> 

 

There is no such option, the only option on the BIOS that has anything related to SCSI, is a option that is under Menu, Advance, and Sub-Menu, PCI Configuration.

For which it has, PCI Device, Embedded SCSI Devices.

When I go into this it has: 

```

Option ROM Scan: [Enabled]                 

Enable Master: [Enabled]

Latency Timer: [0040h]

```

That is the only reference on the whole of the menus on the BIOS towards SCSI.

When it comes to boot:

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> 2) eliminate all other boot options in BIOS (i talking about that boot-chain thingie: floppy first, then cdrom, then hdd). Just leave harddisk as the only option. Why? Sometimes broken BIOSes falsly report a floppy as a first bootable hdd... rare thing, but who knows...? 
> 
> 

 

The following options can NOT be turned off just shuffled about in order, I have as follows.

```

1. [Hard Drive]

2. [Removable Media]

3. [ATAPI CD-ROM Drive]

4. [LANDesk (R) Service Agent II]

```

Right now to the SCSI adapter.

When I boot up and the controler scans for devices this is what I get.

```

Symbios, Inc. PCIboot ROM, no supported Devices found!

```

I dunno if the above message has something to do with it....

Within the adapter configuration is where it gets confusing.

When it comes up I see the adapter show up. ie.: SYM53C875.

Now, the only way I can get hold of my drive detection is if into a menu called "Additional Adapter Configuration" and sellect the controler.

Another thing is that on the Main menu there is a a section about "Adapter Boot Order", but this is grayed out I can go into to it. (Which in my opinion is where the problem is.)

So, I go into my adapter in the menu above and see that my drive is on ID 0, my controler is on ID 7, and then I have something else on ID 14 (which is not the last one....I think that it should be on ID 15), it identifies itself as "SDR,Inc.GEM312 REV003.1e"

From what I read while searching for a solution I should have my drives from  ID 0 to whatever (expect on ID 7 for the controler) and then have a terminator on ID 15, is this correct?

Anyway this is all the info I can provide...

oh oh, one more thing, I have my drive jumpered to start motor there are other option on it, is this importante?

Hope this helps you guys help me....

----------

## RayDude

Have you gone to the system manufacturer's website (or mobo manufacturer's website) to see if there's a new BIOS available for the mobo?

Often they forget such things in the BIOS and then add it after the fact.

Raydude

----------

## adaptr

Which SCSI Id's you use does't matter, as long as the boot drive gets ID 0.

No, there is no SCSI ID that is used to terminate - and all modern SCSI adapters can do this internally, anyway.

Are the disks connected with LVD cables (68-pin smallcore, stiff cable like IDE UDMA cable) ?

Then termination happens either on the cable itself, or on the last drive - if they support that.

Mine do  :Wink: 

Post the exact system make & model so we can help you out.

----------

## JohnerH

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Have you gone to the system manufacturer's website (or mobo manufacturer's website) to see if there's a new BIOS available for the mobo?
> 
> 

 

This is where it gets tricky, I don't know the MB model, and I've been searching frantically for it on the net with no luck....

I wanted to use BIOSAGENT but there's no linux conterpart...

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Are the disks connected with LVD cables (68-pin smallcore, stiff cable like IDE UDMA cable) ? 
> 
> 

 

To be honest I dont know but it looks like a fancy cable....it actually connected to a slot which in turn connect to the HDD, this slot can take up to 6 HDD's...

----------

## adaptr

The "slot" is called a backplane, and usually means you can hot-plug the drives.

This all points increasingly towards a definite YES in the bootable department.

Simple question: what was on the disks when you bought the system ?

Did that boot from SCSI ?

----------

## darkphader

 *JohnerH wrote:*   

> 
> 
> ```
> 
> Symbios, Inc. PCIboot ROM, no supported Devices found!
> ...

 

Seems to indicate that the SCSI controller sees no bootable devices and is therefore not loading its BIOS (the SCSI controller basically "patches" the motherboard's BIOS with its BIOS if a bootable device is seen and it's setup properly) which is why you don't have a SCSI boot option when you examine the motherboards BIOS settings.

There should be a Symbios utility available, either by hitting a key during booting or via a DOS bootable floppy, that will allow you to examine and set the controller's settings.

----------

## Xamindar

I know it has been mentioned above but I have a very similar system (older though) and it would refuse to boot if there were any ide devices attached.  It only has one ide channel because it is built for scsi.  I think the ide is somehow crippled.  Anyway, in my bios I could simply disable the ide controller and it is happy as a clam.

Oh yeah, can you use a boot floppy to boot the drive?

----------

## synapscape

 *JohnerH wrote:*   

> 
> 
> Right now to the SCSI adapter.
> 
> When I boot up and the controler scans for devices this is what I get.
> ...

 

Well, as others pointed out, this means that your controller does not detect anything during his device scan, so it's no wonder you can't boot. so this is definitly no grub problem - it's a plain SCSI bitchiness...

 *JohnerH wrote:*   

> 
> 
> Within the adapter configuration is where it gets confusing.
> 
> When it comes up I see the adapter show up. ie.: SYM53C875.
> ...

 

Well, i'm a bit confused, too.  :Wink: 

"Within the adapter configuration"... what does this mean exactly? Have you entered the SCSI-adapters BIOS? This should be separate from your systems BIOS. Well, i guess you have...

That SDR GEM thingie seems to be a SCSI processor, for whatever that means (maybe sth. like hw-raid? ). Your terminator does not need an ID, only devices do (controller itself, any disk, cdrom, tape. whatever). So far, your ID assignement looks correct. termination should be enabled automatically on the adapter, and should be checked at the drive (jumpers). Don't rely on anything! Double check cabling and jumper settings. maybe the drive is not terminated? maybe termination is set elsewhere?

The "adapter boot order" sounds promising, but it can also just adress problems caused by multiple SCSI-adapters... it's greyed out anyway

In the list where you can see the drive and the controller, can you toggle some settings there? parameters for the drive? for ex. my 2940 let's me choose whether he should send a "spin up" command to the drive in case it does not spin up automatically on power-up. i can also ex/include drives from the scan list so that they are not found on bootup....

Please tell me more of your drive! if it's a compaq, it's most likely some OEM-device with compaqs name attached to it. i have a good guess and say it's an IBM drive. have a look at http://www.webtradecenter.de/pcdisk/ , maybe you find the jumper settings there. Its a good list of jumper settings for "older" harddrives... You can also poke around under /proc oder /sys (depending on your kernel) to get some more scsi-related info...

if you have jumpered your drive to start motor: it DOES spin up at boot, right?  :Wink: 

drive settings that come to mind (these are all jumpers):

parity checking - if both drive and controller support it, you can enable it. does some data-checking on the scsi-bus for data-integrity reasons...

termination enable - CHECK CHECK CHECK!

termination power - if the cabling gets long there might be not enough power left to ensure active termination. therefore a drive can be told to feed additional power to the cable... try it

start motor (spin up) - guess what?  :Smile: 

spin delay - after power up is issued to the drive, wait some time until spin up. why this? "extreme" case - imagine 8 scsi-hdds spinning up at the same time. poor power supply - will it hit the ceiling?  :Smile: 

delay spin - huh? the difference to above is that the controller still has to send startup command, but drive also waits some time after it received the signal

and one more thing: are there any hints about INT13H extensions anywhere in the systems BIOS or the controllers BIOS? if so, enable them. INT13H extensions basically lets SCSI boot... in short words...

good luck!

----------

## JohnerH

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Simple question: what was on the disks when you bought the system ?
> 
> Did that boot from SCSI ?
> ...

 

It had NT on it, but that didn't boot either...

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> I know it has been mentioned above but I have a very similar system (older though) and it would refuse to boot if there were any ide devices attached. It only has one ide channel because it is built for scsi. I think the ide is somehow crippled. Anyway, in my bios I could simply disable the ide controller and it is happy as a clam.
> 
> 

 

No IDE ables are attached and IDE is disable on the bios so.....that cancels that option...

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Oh yeah, can you use a boot floppy to boot the drive?
> 
> 

 

I could probably use a floppy to boot the whole system but I simply don't want to...I want a normal boot for this....

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> "Within the adapter configuration"... what does this mean exactly? Have you entered the SCSI-adapters BIOS? This should be separate from your systems BIOS. Well, i guess you have... 
> 
> 

 

Yep, SCSI-adapters BIOS, that was I what talking about...

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> So far, your ID assignement looks correct. termination should be enabled automatically on the adapter, and should be checked at the drive (jumpers).
> 
> 

 

Termination is automatic on the adaptor.... on the disck however, it does not have that option on the jumper side of things.

The jumper options the disck has are as follows,

- Reserved

- Parity Disable

- Write Protect

- Motor Start Enable

- Delay MTR Start

- Force Single Ended

Speaking of which, the drive is Compac 10K, Model: HD0093172C , Wide-Ultra SCSI-3

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> The "adapter boot order" sounds promising, but it can also just adress problems caused by multiple SCSI-adapters... it's greyed out anyway 
> 
> 

 

I thought I only had one adapter...

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> In the list where you can see the drive and the controller, can you toggle some settings there? parameters for the drive? for ex. my 2940 let's me choose whether he should send a "spin up" command to the drive in case it does not spin up automatically on power-up. i can also ex/include drives from the scan list so that they are not found on bootup.... 
> 
> 

 

Right, on the menu mentioned I can toggle between them but I think the option available are irrelavante.

The option are:

Sync Rate                     //                          40

Width (bits)                    //                         16

Disconnect                                              On

Read write I/O Timeout (Secs)   //               10

Scan for Device Boot Time          //             Yes

Scan for SCSI Luns                      //           Yes

Queue Tags                                      //         No

Now this menu applies for the Drive and for the adapter.

However the adapter has another menu which I didnt find for the drive.

The option of that menu are.

SCAM Support                //         off

Parity                              //          On

Host SCSI ID                   //          7

Scan Order                         //        Low to High (0...Max)

Removable Media Support    //       None

CHS Mapping                        //     SCSI Plug and Play Mapping

Spinup Delay (secs)                  //   10

Secundary Cluster Server         //    No

Termination                            //       Auto [grayed out]

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Please tell me more of your drive! if it's a compaq, it's most likely some OEM-device with compaqs name attached to it. i have a good guess and say it's an IBM drive. have a look at http://www.webtradecenter.de/pcdisk/ , maybe you find the jumper settings there. Its a good list of jumper settings for "older" harddrives... You can also poke around under /proc oder /sys (depending on your kernel) to get some more scsi-related info... 
> 
> 

 

Compac, I posted the model above....

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> f you have jumpered your drive to start motor: it DOES spin up at boot, right? 
> 
> 

 

I guess so...but how do I check??

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> termination enable - CHECK CHECK CHECK!
> 
> 

 

How how how??  :Smile: 

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> termination power - if the cabling gets long there might be not enough power left to ensure active termination. therefore a drive can be told to feed additional power to the cable... try it 
> 
> 

 

Again how do I check it??

Hope this enlights a bit more.......................

Guys even if I don't solve this thank you all for the help you've given me...

J

P.S.: T menos 4 days till the thing takes off....  :Twisted Evil: 

----------

## JohnerH

Right..

Solution was:

I took out the BIOS baterry, reset everything including the SCSI-Adaptor.

Once I swtched the thing on.....

Voila..

Go figure...

J

----------

## Xamindar

Don't you hate how it is always a very simple solution?

----------

## JohnerH

Hell I think I'm just gonna make the thing fly just for the hell of it...

 :Smile: 

----------

## synapscape

 *JohnerH wrote:*   

> Hell I think I'm just gonna make the thing fly just for the hell of it...
> 
> 

 

After THAT cause for problems, it deserves to fly....  :Wink:  i'd say it should fly HIGH because of that stupid error, as we remember the definition for hardware: all parts that can be kicked  :Smile: 

----------

## RayDude

 *JohnerH wrote:*   

> Right..
> 
> Solution was:
> 
> I took out the BIOS baterry, reset everything including the SCSI-Adaptor.
> ...

 

Its like I tell everybody. The hard stuff always just works. Its the damn simple stupid stuff that never works right!

Cool beans dude!

Raydude

----------

## ryan83vt

But I been done seen 'bout everything, when I see a server fly!

----------

## lbrtuk

Incidentally I had a related peoblem. With the same SCSI card. On a dual PII400 Dell.

I just narrowed it down to Dell's BIOS being stupid and disabling the onboard disk controller (and certainly not booting off it) when it finds a SCSI card. So that's fine if you're using SCSI hard disks, but I just needed to use a SCSI scanner.

The solution was (wait for it) to use a macintosh (adaptec) SCSI card. The BIOS was full of PPC code and of course invalid, but it meant that the BIOS would leave me the fsck alone and boot off my IDE controller. Linux naturally doesn't care about BIOS interfaces, and the card works absolutely perfectly with aic7xxx. Even though the FAQ on adaptec's site said it would never work in a million years.

I also considered cutting off the BIOS chip on the LSI board with a stanley knife (it was soldered directly to the board).

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