# Adaptec Serial ATA RAID - Hardware RAID/Alternatives?

## darrylbleau

Hi All,

Doing some reasearch for the disk array on a new server. Would like to go SATA RAID for various reasons.

Looking at the Adaptec 1210 cards, it seems there is support for them, but from what I've been able to piece together it's really just software RAID anyway. Is this a function of the controller itself (there is no hardware raid chip on the controller) or is it just that there is no linux driver?

What about the 2410 cards? Just looking at the pictures, it seems the 2410 has some sort of a chip on it that the 1210 doesn't. I would assume is a hardware raid controller?

Adaptec 1210

[img:02fe5ec67d]http://graphics.adaptec.com/1210SA_board.jpg[/img:02fe5ec67d]

Adaptec 2410

 [img:02fe5ec67d]http://graphics.adaptec.com/SATA2410SA_productshot.jpg[/img:02fe5ec67d]

 Could this be actually hardware RAID? If it is, is it supported in linux somehow? Or would buying the 2410 really just be the same as the 1210 and only allow us to run in software raid mode anyway? (And thusly, a big waste of money). On that same line, if we can only do software RAID, is there really any point to buying a SATA RAID card at all? Why not just get a SATA controller and do software raid that way?

If the adaptec cards won't cut it, are there any alternatives? What we'd really like is to be able to run a RAID which is controlled by hardware, in gentoo linux, somehow. Any ideas? :)

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## darrylbleau

Is there really no one out there who knows or is it just that no one cares? :)

What I really want to know is if there is a serial ATA raid controller that I can use in Gentoo that does RAID processing through hardware... any bites?

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## taskara

hey dude..

they look like software raid controllers.. or "fake hardware" raid controllers

althought the second one may be hardware.. don't know for sure.. but it still uses silicon image chipset.

seriously don't get one of those, they use silicon image chipset and u will be SORRY

search for "silicon raid" and "dma" or something.. HEAPS of posts... people can't get dma working.. or they can but it crashes.. and even if they can it's only udma 2

anyway if u seriously want a hardware raid controller there is only one choice.

3Ware

pricey.. but it's the goods.

comes up as scsi device.

kernel support since pre 2.0

thing of beauty

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## darrylbleau

I found some more info on this, thought I'd post here for anyone else who might have the same questions I did.

The 3ware cards seem to work great from what I found. Seems like all of them are true hardware RAID cards.

The adaptec 1200/1210 RAID cards are really just controllers (IDE and SATA, respectively). The 'RAID' part is software only, as I suspected.

The adaptec 2400/2410 RAID cards are true hardware RAID, and are supported right in the kernel as a SCSI device (much like the 3ware cards). There's a good site here about the whole thing: http://www.pab-opto.de/hwtests/raid/2400a/. Seems the 2400 appears as standard SCSI disk and nothing should be disturbed by the RAID (transparent to programs).

Hopefully this post might help someone else in the future. Post here if it did!

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## taskara

hey.. do u know where the option is in the kernel ?

this is 3ware

```
<*> 3ware Hardware ATA-RAID support
```

guess for adaptec you need:

```
< > Adaptec I2O RAID support
```

and maybe

```
< > Adaptec AACRAID support (EXPERIMENTAL)
```

 ??

if it were me I'd pay the extra and go the 3ware!  :Very Happy: 

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## darrylbleau

All you need (apparently, I'll be ordering my system Monday/Tuesday) is:

```

<*> Adaptec I20 RAID support

```

Have you checked out the site I listed? It's a bit dated but has some good info on setting it up in linux.

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## taskara

yeah I did check it out.. it's old hardware and seems slow for it's day, but still it will be interesting to see how this new one runs  :Smile: 

please post some test results, cause I am building a new linux server in about a month and it will have a 3Ware controller  :Very Happy: 

cheers!

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## darrylbleau

check out this mailing list archive too:

http://lists.insecure.org/lists/linux-kernel/2001/Oct/index.html#1383

Look for the 'Dilimma: Replace Escalade with Adaptec 2400A or Promise Supertrak66?' thread.

Sure I can post some test results. The system I'm building is a new server for my company, in a nutshell, it's a dual opteron, 2 gigs RAM, adaptec 2400a with 4 WD 7200rpm 8MB cache drives in RAID 1/0. Should be an ok system. Was going to go the xeon path but really, it just came down to that we want to play with the 64 bit stuff. We're hardware junkies at heart. As such... I'm pretty interested in the threads on these forums about people running gentoo on the opterons. :)

We decided against the 10k RPM SATA Raptors we were going to use because sustained data transfer was more important to us than latency. We could have went SCSI too I suppose but the costs are huge, and we already have a SCSI RAID system and we are not impressed with the performance for dollar ratio.

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## taskara

oh oh oh oh oh oh ... that really interests me..

can u tell me all the hardware you're using and stuff?

that is a similar box to the one I want to build!   :Very Happy: 

I'm sure the raptors still have a higher sustained data transfer rate than the standard 7200rpm drives... although the cost ratio goes up a bit.. and unfortunately hd space goes DOWN..  :Sad: 

so u running raid 5 ? or raid 10 ?

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## darrylbleau

Sure...

Motherboard: MSI K8D Master-F

CPU: AMD Opteron 240 (x 2)

RAM: 512M PC2700 ECC Registered (x 4, 2 for each CPU)

Power Supply: Sparkle 460W 24-Pin

RAID: Adaptec 2400A

Hard Drive: Western Digital 40GB Caviar SE (x 4)

RAID will be running 1/0 (or 'RAID 10').

As for the hard drives... here are some links to reviews of each (well it's the 80g SE but it should be close)

10K Raptor:

http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200303/20030320WD360GD_1.html

7200 Caviar SE:

http://www.storagereview.com/articles/200205/20020529WD800JB_1.html

In a nutshell, raptor sustained was start 63m/s end 45m/s latency 8.6, Caviar SE start 49m/s end 29m/s latency 14.

So yes, you are right, the raptor has higher sustained transfer rate. What I didn't mention was we had the option of 2 Raptors or 4 Caviar SE's (it's a price thing). So, 4 Caviars in RAID 1/0 should best out 2 Raptors in RAID 1, I would think. Though you do have me thinking it over, again. That 8.6ms latency is nice too for web apps. (Small DB hits).

There are a few other factors specific to us as well, we don't want to run silicon image chipsets from the posts I've read, and the only SATA RAID controller we can get from our supplier (read: at vendor pricing) is the adaptec 1210 [EDIT: Err... 2410, duh].

I think I'll read over the SI chipset posts again and see if maybe the adaptec 1210 [EDIT: Doh, Again, 2410 I meant] might not be a bad choice. Maybe I can squeeze out a bit more cash too and go for 4 10k raptors... we'll see. It really depends on controller compatibility.

But, you've got me thinking it over again!Last edited by darrylbleau on Sun Aug 10, 2003 2:07 am; edited 2 times in total

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## taskara

hehe.. sorry  :Confused: 

anyway trust me.. don't go a silicon image chipset.. it sux arse..

what u want is hardware raid, as you know  :Wink:  and that 2400 adaptec seems a good choice - although it ALSO is silicon image chipset, it's all handled internally, and u dont' use a silicon driver - so u shoudl be right with that card.

but hey.. the 1200 is only like $100 so why not try it? (if u don't believe me  :Wink: )

 *Quote:*   

> So yes, you are right, the raptor has higher sustained transfer rate. What I didn't mention was we had the option of 2 Raptors or 4 Caviar SE's (it's a price thing). So, 4 Caviars in RAID 1/0 should best out 2 Raptors in RAID 1, I would think. Though you do have me thinking it over, again. That 8.6ms latency is nice too for web apps. (Small DB hits). 

 

ahh now it makes sense - 2 raptors or 4 caviars... hmmm well I guess it depends how much hdd space u need. if u need a shit load, then forget the raptors.

also.. is u wanna raid 0 them, then you'll need to raid 10 them, which takes the number of raptors up to 4

so if what you are thinking of doing is either raid 10 4 caviars, or raid 1 two raptors, then I'd prob go raid 10 4 caviars  :Very Happy: 

confused yet?  :Wink:  hehe

keep me posted!!

I'll look into that hardware soon too...

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## darrylbleau

Sorry I got confused with the 1210/2410 up there.

From what I can find out, the chipsets on all the adaptec cards are as follows:

Adaptec 1200A IDE RAID (Software) : Highpoint 370A

Adaptec 2400A IDE RAID (Hardware) : ? Can't find any reliable info

Adaptec 1210 SATA RAID (Software) : Silicon Image

Adaptec 2410 SATA RAID (Hardware) : Silicon Image

If the 2400 is also a Silicon Image chipset, but seems to work fine because it's all hardware raid (handled internally as you say), then I should probably be fine with the 2410 as well? I found some stuff on the 2410 that said it was basically an upgraded 2400A which would lead me to believe that it should work as well as the 2400A?

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## darrylbleau

Hmmm... Well, if we go to 1 gig ram (4 x 256, 512 for each CPU) I can probably put in that 2410 and 4 SATA Raptor 10ks. What would you do, given the option? Go for the extra gig of RAM or faster HD performance?

The server this thing will be replacing currently has a gig of ram, and the output of free looks like this:

```

             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached

Mem:       1029816    1007860      21956          0      10960     809244

-/+ buffers/cache:     187656     842160

Swap:       530104     110232     419872

```

The server handles a lot of things... it's the primary mail server for about 400 users, runs a few websites (Orion for JSP and Apache for PHP), both of which make frequent small DB calls (forum posts, ect). One of the sites is also an ecommerce site, which will be running Ofbiz. Because of the nature of the services, I'm thinking that disk access time would be more important than amount of ram. (Right now the current server uses 80% of the RAM to cache with).

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## taskara

I wouldn't go any less than a gig of ram

is it cheaper to buy 2x512 modules, instead of 4x256?

how much hdd space do u need?

I think that as u are not transferring huge files, u can prob get away with the slower hdds.

however most people would say "forget ide, and go scsi"

and if that's the thought process you're better off with the raptors.

hmm I'm not really helping much  :Wink: 

so:

how much EXTRA is it to go 4x raptors over 4x caviar?

do u only need 60gb of space? or do u need more cause that's all you'll get with 4x raptors in raid 10.

PLUS one thing to consider is that the raptors have 5yr warranty, the caviar only 1yr.

definately don't go any less ram   :Shocked: 

and I think the adaptec 2410 will be just fine  :Smile: 

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## darrylbleau

I didn't look into 2x512, aren't the opterons dual channel per CPU? (As in, I would need two sticks of ram for each CPU).

HD space is a moot point. We run on an 18 gig SCSI RAID 1 right now and it's plenty.

The raptors are about $100 more per HD than the caviars, in Canadian dollars. That would be about $75 US. So it's about $400 more Canadian or $300 more US to go raptors over caviars. Both controllers are basically the same price so that isn't an issue.

However, from what I can find, I really should go PC2700 RAM. From what I've read, seems the Opteron doesn't really have a front side bus, but the dual channel ram will run 333. The only ram I can get in PC2700 is 512m sticks. So it might be 2 gigs of RAM anyway.

Also, looks like our supplier is fresh out of 2410s... so if I have to order from somewhere else anyway I might just get the escalade. :)

Maybe we should really start a new thread... call it 'Making a Gentoo Opteron Box' or something?

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## darrylbleau

Ok I made a new thread... maybe we'll get some more 'me-toos' :)

It's here

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## Moled

I would reccomend not touching anything that contains a silicon image chip in it

just avoid them

it works fine here, just the performance is a bit bad

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## taskara

 *Moled wrote:*   

> I would reccomend not touching anything that contains a silicon image chip in it
> 
> just avoid them
> 
> it works fine here, just the performance is a bit bad

 

yeah that's what I've been saying, but we are looking at a hardware controller, so it won't actually use the silicon image driver  :Smile: 

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## col

If you are going to get a 1210 (software raid) then you are better off getting a motherboard with one pre loaded or even get the promise 378 SATA chip. Plenty of boards have them now.

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## taskara

he's not gonna go the 1200 series cause they are software and need that crappy silicon image driver  :Confused: 

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## abarlam

Try the silicon image S-ATA controller.  It uses gdth scsi module and appears as scsi disks so it uses hardware raid instead of ide soft raid.

*EDIT* Intel has a 4port S-ATA controller that utilizes this chipset (si w/ gdth)

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## mattc

I have an Adaptec RAID controller with the highpoint chipset hp37x.

It's been in constant use for 2 months with 2 60G samsung Spinpoint ATA100 drives. I currently use a 2.4.22_pre2-gss kernel and the opensource drivers V131 from highpoint. Follow the readme.txt, it works a treat.

make KERNELDIR=/usr/src/linux-2.4.22_pre2-gss

cp hpt37x2.o /lib/modules/2.4.22_pre2-gss/kernel/drivers/scsi/

modprobe sg

modprobe sd_mod

modprobe hpt37x2

You'll find the RAID0 / RAID1 / RAID10 as scsi devices:

/dev/sda

/dev/sdb

I use the disks for home and for streaming video from digicam (High throughput)

It may be (semi-?) software raid but it works well, I have even simulated power loss, removed a disk during use etc. Works and recovers just find.

 :Smile: 

Matt

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## gaz

wish i read this thread before I bought my adaptec 1210SA  :Sad: 

having all sorts of problems with it  :Sad: 

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## pilotet

I've kernel 2.6.0 but... I don't find this options. Only:

  <M> I2O support

  <M>   I2O PCI support                                                    

   < >   I2O Block OSM                                                      

  <M>   I2O /proc support                                                  

Thanks

 *taskara wrote:*   

> hey.. do u know where the option is in the kernel ?
> 
> this is 3ware
> 
> ```
> ...

 

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## taskara

 *pilotet wrote:*   

> I've kernel 2.6.0 but... I don't find this options. Only:
> 
>   <M> I2O support
> 
>   <M>   I2O PCI support                                                    
> ...

 

hmm. I know 2.6 supports 3ware, but not sure about the adaptec.

u can try not compling them as modules, but rather directly into the kernel?

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## tomfisher

You can read howto about adaptec i2o cards and Linux 2.6 kernels

at  http://smartcgi.com/docs/kernel26_adaptec.html

has been tested at production server

 *pilotet wrote:*   

> I've kernel 2.6.0 but... I don't find this options. Only:
> 
>   <M> I2O support
> 
>   <M>   I2O PCI support                                                    
> ...

 

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## sunwukong

 *tomfisher wrote:*   

> You can read howto about adaptec i2o cards and Linux 2.6 kernels
> 
> at  http://smartcgi.com/docs/kernel26_adaptec.html
> 
> has been tested at production server
> ...

 

A few things to note:

1. The link in the SmartCGI page seems to be dead/protected -- try the  original instead. This seems to be the patch used by the gentoo sources maintainers propogated all the way up to gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.5.

2. I'm currently running gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.5 as well (with an Adaptec/DPT 2400A RAID card) but I'm using a recent build from the driver maintainer mentioned in this kernel bug thread. Note that using this driver requires patching the Makefile in drivers/scsi as well.

3. It's also been mentioned before, that the I2O drivers interfere with the dpt_i2o drivers -- this pissed me off no end until I found this out.

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## sunwukong

 *sunwukong wrote:*   

> 2. I'm currently running gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.5 as well (with an Adaptec/DPT 2400A RAID card) but I'm using a recent build from the driver maintainer mentioned in this kernel bug thread. Note that using this driver requires patching the Makefile in drivers/scsi as well.

 

I've just installed the gentoo-dev-sources-2.6.5-r1 kernel (which has a patch for this bug). It seems to be using the version of the driver I manually installed above, but the Makefile hasn't been patched to compile drivers/scsi/dpti2oscsi2.c (I've done it myself again). Just a quick look at the source seems to imply this code is required for dpt_i2o.c .... perhaps these symbols are defined elsewhere?

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## carpman

Any update on this is as i am about to build server with adaptec 2410sa and 3 74gb raptors.

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## trossachs

Where can you buy 3Ware in the UK? Looks like I'm going to have to stump up the cash for this one.

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## mattc

I've had my Adaptec 1200A working very well under 2.4 kernels....

I then upgraded to 2.6 Mid last year when Highpoint release the new

drivers that support 2.6 kernel. All was well until 2.6.10. Now the highpoint

driver is relally unstable (to the point of filesystem hangs, data corruption)  :Sad: 

So I finally relented and bought 3ware 8006LP RAID controller and 2 x Samsung 160GB SATA drives (they are real quiet and fast thanks to the dynamic fluid bearings  :Smile:  ). One quick modprobe, a cfdisk, mkfs and a mount later and I have a reliable RAID (2 weeks intensive soak test --> streaming video to and from the disk via NFS/Samba and direct) So far no crashes, hangups or corruptions..... 

Conclusion:

Worst Computer Purchase in the  Last 5 years: Adaptec 1200A  (EUR 60)

Best Computer Purchase in the  Last 5 years: 3ware 8006-2   (EUR 120)

It seems you really only get what you pay for !!

Matt

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## trossachs

3Ware 7000-6 here. Decided to grit my teeth and spend the money! Never looked back.

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## xanthein

I've just bought a 3Ware card in the UK.  I got mine from TMC - http://www.tmc-uk.com/ but that was because I was buying a Supermicro 1U server from them too.  Should all arrive tomorrow, and then it's play time  :Smile: 

Another place you can get them is Chilblast - http://www.chillblast.com/ although I've not bought from them.

Cheers,

Jon.

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## ben_dash

I'm thinking about getting an Adaptec 2400A to use with 3  (or maybe even 5 but I'll have to get the 8 port card then) Seagate 750GB drives in RAID 5 and was curious what the current 2.6 kernel status is as regards I2O patching.

Do you still need to manually patch gentoo-dev-sources-2.6?

I see that the Adaptec 2400A has 48bit LBA but can it support 5 750GB drives in RAID 5?

Does the 3Ware Escalade 7506-4 support 48bit LBA?

Will the 3Ware handle 4 750GB drives?

Any info greatly appreciated, thanks in advance,

Ben

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## trossachs

I have a 2U server to start building soon add to the other 2. Will be looking at 3ware again. First time I'll be using SATA drives. Should be fun. Still no GUI for my boxes though, all CLI!   :Very Happy: 

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## ben_dash

I'd really like to go with 3Ware but I'm confused about the maximum size specifications; "Supporting up to 3.6TB of storage per controller (dependent on drive capacity, 2TB per array maximum.)"

If I have 4 750GB drives that's 3TB, 3 750GB drives is 2.25TB, so it sounds like it's not going to work...  errr... maybe(?)

If anyone knows what "Supporting up to 3.6TB of storage per controller (dependent on drive capacity, 2TB per array maximum.)" actually means please let me know,

Thanks!

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## trossachs

Perhaps you should also send off an email to their tech support dept, they will be able to tell you directly and advise which product best suits your configuration.

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## ben_dash

I read the manual and figure out what the 2TB limit meant.  It means that I could buy a 8 port card and run 2 1.5 TB 3 HDD RAID 5 Arrays plus run the remaining 2 ports as a 1.5TB RAID0 array, as long as none of the arrays are more that 2TB.

I just learned that the 9500 will work on a 32bit PCI slot so I've devided to go SATA instead of PATA and get the 9500 instead.

What a learning experience the past few days have been!

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## deadeyes

 *darrylbleau wrote:*   

> I found some more info on this, thought I'd post here for anyone else who might have the same questions I did.
> 
> The 3ware cards seem to work great from what I found. Seems like all of them are true hardware RAID cards.
> 
> The adaptec 1200/1210 RAID cards are really just controllers (IDE and SATA, respectively). The 'RAID' part is software only, as I suspected.
> ...

 

thanks for this info  :Smile: 

On the website of adaptec it is not clear at all if the 2410 is hardware or software.

But the big chip did me think it was hardware.

It is also recognized by FreeBSD kernel which is great:D

In a few days I have this card and will let you know (fyi) if it works smooth.

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