# The big problem with Gentoo...

## Gentree

Hi,

I decided to install gentoo on a old PIII system and went throught the install guide using a stage3.

I have a bootable gentoo but it seems I have missed something. I have nothing from lsmod despite having a lot of stuff as modules.

I've been using gentoo for about 4yrs on a daily basis and thought I was an old hand at kernel configing. Maybe I'm just missing the obvious. 

I have loadable modules selected and was expecting to see at least a few modules like uhci/ohci etc.

The big problem with Gentoo is I've never had to reinstall it  

Ideas please .

TIA, Gentree.   :Cool: 

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## jmbsvicetto

Gentree,

might you have forgotten to include automatic module loading in the kernel and or adding the modules to /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6?

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## yabbadabbadont

Does "cat /proc/modules" return anything?

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## Gentree

sorry I thought I had said "automatic module loading " is selected, my mistake. Yes it is.

proc/modules is as empty as lsmod.

I just noticed that I was booting vmlinuz.... rather then bzImage that I usually use on my main system. 

Just to check I reran 

```
make && make modules && make modules_install 
```

 and copied bzIamge and booted it .

Same result, zorro modules.

 :Confused: 

Thanks for your replies.

 :Cool: 

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## yabbadabbadont

Which kernel sources are you using/have you tried?

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## Gentree

gentoo-sources on the latest stage3, gentoo-sources-2.6.19-r5 from memory. I may want to play around later but it seemed more sensible to get the thing into an X capable state before messing with different kernels.

thx

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## yabbadabbadont

Have you verified that /lib/modules/....  is indeed populated with modules?

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## Gentree

indeed /lib/modules/`uname -r`/kernel seems to be in order . If I add 3c59x to /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 it some up in lsmod.

The other thing that seems odd is that dmesg shows it's finding my PCI USB2 card and refers to ehci, I rebuilt that as a module and I dont see that module or the card anywhere.

It's like autoload is not enabled.

 :Confused: 

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## numeritos

Have you also copied the System.map from /usr/src/linux to /boot ?

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## Gentree

I did wonder about that but I dont think that is necessary. At least I have not done it on this box for years.

There is a System.map file that is a symlink to a suse system map though. I'd dismissed the suse files because they have kernel specific names but now you make me think about it the symlink file may be causing an interference.

Many thanks.   :Cool: 

Sadly no. Same.

However I tried modprobe snd_ens1371 and it pulled in a whole bunch of related stuff so it seems the autoload feature is working.

Must be some hardware detection I'm missing. I'll look tomorrow.

 :Cool: 

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## yabbadabbadont

grep -i coldplug /etc/conf.d/*

One of the files in there controls whether or not udev will coldplug modules during boot.

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## SLBMEH

 *yabbadabbadont wrote:*   

> grep -i coldplug /etc/conf.d/*
> 
> One of the files in there controls whether or not udev will coldplug modules during boot.

 

as already stated, it sounds like coldplug is not initializing.  did you emerge and/or add it to the boot/default runlevel?

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## yabbadabbadont

 *SLBMEH wrote:*   

>  *yabbadabbadont wrote:*   grep -i coldplug /etc/conf.d/*
> 
> One of the files in there controls whether or not udev will coldplug modules during boot. 
> 
> as already stated, it sounds like coldplug is not initializing.  did you emerge and/or add it to the boot/default runlevel?

 

Wasn't coldplug completely replaced by the newer versions of udev?  I thought that was why coldplugging is now controlled by an option in /etc/conf.d.  Oh well, what do I know, it's been a few months since I last used Gentoo.

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## desultory

```
# Dynamic /dev managers can trigger coldplug events which cause services to

# start before we are ready for them. If this happens, we can defer these

# services to start in the boot runlevel. Set RC_COLDPLUG="no" if you don't

# want this.

# NOTE: This also affects module coldplugging in udev-096 and higher

# If you want module coldplugging but not coldplugging of services then you

# can set RC_COLDPLUG="yes" and RC_PLUG_SERVICES="!*"

RC_COLDPLUG="yes"
```

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## Gentree

hi

what I dont understand is why there is something missing unless I just forgot something in the kernel.

surely the stage3 should give me a basic. working system with hardware detection.

one thing I find a bit odd is that the portage tarball does not match the stage3. There are loads of packages that show updates pending yet I have not synced the tree.

It would seem desirable that the two match perfectly to avoid the need for a connection until the system is at least up and running and avoid any potential pitfalls due to deps and changing configs.

eg is see udev at 087 already wanting to update to 104. As an experienced gentooer this is the sort of thing I do not even want contemplate until I have a stable working and fully backed up system.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

 :Cool: 

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## cyrillic

 *Gentree wrote:*   

> eg is see udev at 087 already wanting to update to 104. As an experienced gentooer this is the sort of thing I do not even want contemplate until I have a stable working and fully backed up system. 

 

This is the problem.  udev-087 is so ancient that the coldplugging feature was not included yet.

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## nixnut

Moved from Installing Gentoo to Kernel & Hardware.

kernel stuff, so moved here.

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## Gentree

 *nixnut wrote:*   

> Moved from Installing Gentoo to Kernel & Hardware.
> 
> kernel stuff, so moved here.

 

Thanks for your help.

could you explain how this is NOT an install issue? I have a half broken basic Gentoo boot with no hardware detection, out of date udev and an pppoe that cannot connect to get me any further. 

As I have posted autoloading is working but I have no h/w detection, probably because hot/coldplug is missing.

If this is a kernel problem for you could you please expand on what you think is wrong. Otherwise it would be helpful to put the thread back where I posted it since until I can get an internet connection and run emerge hotplug this remains quite definately an _install_ problem.

 :Cool: 

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## Gentree

 *cyrillic wrote:*   

>  *Gentree wrote:*   eg is see udev at 087 already wanting to update to 104. As an experienced gentooer this is the sort of thing I do not even want contemplate until I have a stable working and fully backed up system.  
> 
> This is the problem.  udev-087 is so ancient that the coldplugging feature was not included yet.

 

so what we're looking at is a defective stage3. It should have a more recent udev or both udev and coldplug, is that correct?

Thx.

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## Kate Monster

 *Gentree wrote:*   

>  *cyrillic wrote:*    *Gentree wrote:*   eg is see udev at 087 already wanting to update to 104. As an experienced gentooer this is the sort of thing I do not even want contemplate until I have a stable working and fully backed up system.  
> 
> This is the problem.  udev-087 is so ancient that the coldplugging feature was not included yet. 
> 
> so what we're looking at is a defective stage3. It should have a more recent udev or both udev and coldplug, is that correct?
> ...

 

Your install came with the old udev, but not coldplug? hmmm, odd. i swear my gentoo 2006.1 install came with coldplug included.

But anyway, I think your only option is to upgrade udev. Should fix most of your errors

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## Gentree

hmm, seems like no-ones every tested the install media other than on an existing network with dhcp.

IF rp-pppoe pkg worked (recommended in the install guide) I probably would have already done the update.

IF the install media had complete/consistant software included this would help.

IF net-setup refered to in the install guide was actually in the stage3 that may also have helped.

It seems odd that the 2006.1 profile does not have a properly tested and documented install method by now. This is more like an adventure game than a distro installation.

 :Rolling Eyes: 

thanks

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## cyrillic

 *Gentree wrote:*   

> This is more like an adventure game than a distro installation.
> 
> 

 

Oh c'mon now.

Gentoo is quite a bit easier than LFS, but it is still mostly a roll-your-own kind of distro.  This means that some manual intervention is needed if you want everything to work properly.

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## Gentree

I'm quite happy with roll-your-own, that's why I love Gentoo , it's the most powerful and flexible distro I have seen and almost certainly has the most rigourous and felxible package management. Top marks.

What I do not expect is to have to follow some ludicrous paper-chase - debugging cycle just to get the basic installer to run. This is absurd in this day and age.

Seriously I started gentoo with 1.4_rc1 as a complete noob with virtually no knowlege of linux and it went better than now.

There's something badly wrong here.

/shakes head.

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## jmbsvicetto

Gentree,

AFAIK, 2006.1 required you to install manually coldplug and to add it to the boot run-level. IIRC, from udev-9X coldplug has been deprecated and should be removed. I assume you didn't install coldplug. If so, you have one of the two options: install coldplug or update udev.

By the way, did you use the minimal install-cd or the GLI?

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## Gentree

thanks for you explainations.

so there are serious deficiencies in the tarballs and the doc. The does not mention coldplug or udev nor does it explain that without either of these you willl have no hardware detection. Also the stage3 is out of sync with portage tarball . It would probably make life a lot easier if the portage tree was the one used to make the stage3.

Updating always carries a risk of breakage (especially with pks like udev) . It would be good to at least get a system installed and stable before doing a full update.

I dont understand why you say required  , past tense, 2006.1 is the most recent isn't it?

I used tarballs from one of the mirrors.

ftp://ftp.belnet.be/mirror/rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo/releases/x86/2006.1/stages/

nixnut suggested on PM that I build everything into the kernel, no modules. That may get around the h'w problem but since I did not even get a working connection I have abandoned this installation, it was taking days of my time messing around. 

I'm a great fan of Gentoo but I finally give up trying to install it for others it's too time consuming.

I did look at the GLI but it was a non starter. I've commented on that in more detail elsewhere.

This whole install situation needs a thorough review and some serious work. Gentoo was never intended to be a turn key installer like Suse but it has to be a lot easier , properly tested and fully documented.

Thanks for you help.

 :Cool: 

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