# Left click doesn't work...why?

## Dodec

I recently installed Gentoo on my Toshiba Portege M400 laptop, and have just finished setting up a Fluxbox desktop environment, and noticed that while the physical right click button works on my computer's touch pad, neither the physical left click button nor a tap on the touch pad works to left click. I don't believe it's a problem with the hardware, because I connected a Wacom Intuos 2 tablet to the computer via USB, and the same thing happened when I tried using the stylus (all three clicks work on other computers) for that--right and center clicks work just fine, left click doesn't even register. On the other hand, I don't think it's a software issue either, because the same thing happened in my computer's previous incarnation as a Windows machine, and eventually fixed itself after a week or two (how, I don't know). Does anyone have any idea why this could be happening, and how to fix it other than just letting it run its course and hoping it fixes itself again?

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

The M400 is a convertable tablet/netbook, right? Don't these things have synaptics trackpad and wacom? Anyhow, the issue is probably due to your missing evdev support in the kernel, the x11 synaptics driver, and/or how the synaptics trackpad is configured, what do you have set for INPUT_DEVICE in make.conf? You'll probably want:

```
INPUT_DEVICE="evdev synaptics wacom"
```

In the kernel config you should have:

```
Device Drivers --->

  Input Device Support --->

      <*> Event Interface

      [*] Mice --->

          <*> PS/2 mouse
```

... and for wacom:

```
Input device support  --->

    [*]   Tablets  ---> 

      <M>   Wacom Intuos/Graphire tablet support (USB)
```

If the evdev, synaptics and wacom packages aren't currently installed then emerge them ...

```
emerge --oneshot x11-drivers/xf86-input-synaptics x11-drivers/xf86-input-wacom x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev
```

These would be pulled in when the above INPUT_DEVICES are set ... so you may or may not need to do this.

The above should provide all thats needed software wise, and X11 should automatically detect the touchpad/wacom ... this may be all thats needed, however, both devices can be configured for various functionality (draging, tap, speed, etc) so a look at the synaptics touchpad and wacom tablet pages on the wiki may be needed for additional configuration.

HTH & best ... khay

----------

## Dodec

khayyam: when I ran cat /proc/bus/input/devices as per the Synaptics Touchpad page on the Gentoo Wiki, it told me that the only mouse I had installed was a generic PS/2 mouse. I'm assuming this is the touchpad, as the computer takes input for right clicks and moving the cursor through the touchpad perfectly, although why then it wouldn't accept left clicks is beyond me. How would I go about adding that to the xorg.conf, and would I need to emerge any other firmware/drivers? The example on the wiki only shows the configuration for Synaptics and ALPS devices, neither of which seem to be what I have. I haven't yet tried to set up the stylus input for the touchscreen--I'm assuming this would fall under the category of a serial device.

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

unless your M400 is somehow unlike other M400's then the trackpad is synaptics and the stylus a wacom, so I'll reiterate the above, what INPUT_DEVICES are set in make.conf and are the requisite drivers enabled in the kernel?

best ... khay

----------

## Dodec

Khayyam: I went into the kernel, enabled everything that was necessary, emerged all the drivers, edited the Xorg config file, and the left click still refuses to work, and since the last reboot the cursor has stopped highlighting anything in the menus. Also, the cursor does not register the existence of the stylus when I use it directly on the screen. What else can I do that might get one or the other of the input devices to work?

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

can you pastebin your xorg.conf ...

best ... khay

----------

## Dodec

Khayyam: my xorg.conf didn't look anything like the example on the Synaptics page--the only one I found that looked like that was my xorg.conf.vbox. I don't know whether that's significant or not. When I tried to post the files with wgetpaste, I got a "permission denied" error, even when I tried it as root. How can I get around this?

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

can you provide the exact command and output ...

best ... khay

----------

## Dodec

```

# /usr/share/portage/config/sets/xorg.conf wgetpaste

-su: /usr/share/portage/config/sets/xorg.conf: Permission denied

# /usr/portage/app-emulation/virtualbox-guest-additions/files/xorg.conf.vbox wgetpaste

-su: /usr/portage/app-emulation/virtualbox-guest-additions/files/xorg.conf.vbox: Permission denied

```

The same thing happened regardless of whether I tried this as root or a regular user.

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

"command ... options ... parameters" and in your case you have it inverted "parameters command"

```
wgetpaste /usr/share/portage/config/sets/xorg.conf
```

best ... khay

----------

## Dodec

Oh...whoops....  :Embarassed: 

Anyway, here are the files:

xorg.conf: http://bpaste.net/show/37995

xorg.conf.vbox: http://bpaste.net/show/37996

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

I should have paid more attention to the files you provided to wgetpaste above ... these are not your xorg.conf. The first isn't an xorg.conf at all, and the second is from your portage tree and will be installed as part of virtualbox.

xorg-x11can function without an xorg.conf and some sections are probably configured via /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d and/or /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d and so when you said "my xorg.conf" I'd assumed you had something under /etc/X11. So, currently, besides whats under /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d (if anything) its autoconfigured.

I'm assuming you have a /dev/psaux ... please try the following in /etc/X11/xorg.conf

```
# xorg.conf

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier  "Generic Keyboard"

    Driver      "kbd"

    Option      "XkbRules"          "xorg"

    Option      "XkbModel"          "pc105"

    Option      "XkbLayout"         "us"

EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier  "Configured Mouse"

    Driver      "mouse"

    Option      "CorePointer"

EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier  "Synaptics Touchpad"

    Driver      "synaptics"

    Option      "SendCoreEvents"    "true"

    Option      "Device"            "/dev/psaux"

    Option      "Protocol"          "auto-dev"

    Option      "HorizEdgeScroll"   "0"

EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier  "stylus"

    Driver      "wacom"

    Option      "SendCoreEvents"    "true"

    Option      "Device"            "/dev/input/wacom"

    Option      "Type"              "stylus"

    Option      "ForceDevice"       "ISDV4"

EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier  "eraser"

    Driver      "wacom"

    Option      "SendCoreEvents"    "true"

    Option      "Device"            "/dev/input/wacom"

    Option      "Type"              "eraser"

    Option      "ForceDevice"       "ISDV4"

EndSection

Section "InputDevice"

    Identifier  "cursor"

    Driver      "wacom"

    Option      "SendCoreEvents"    "true"

    Option      "Device"            "/dev/input/wacom"

    Option      "Type"              "cursor"

    Option      "ForceDevice"       "ISDV4"

EndSection

Section "Device"

    Identifier  "Configured Video Device"

EndSection

Section "Monitor"

    Identifier  "Configured Monitor"

EndSection

Section "Screen"

    Identifier  "Default Screen"

    Monitor     "Configured Monitor"

    Device      "Configured Video Device"

EndSection

Section "ServerLayout"

    Identifier  "Default Layout"

    Screen      "Default Screen"

    InputDevice "Synaptics Touchpad"

    InputDevice "stylus"

    InputDevice "cursor"

    InputDevice "eraser" 

EndSection
```

If x11 fails to start for some reason then please pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log ...

best ... khay

----------

## Dodec

It started fine, but it still doesn't left click, and the stylus still doesn't work. Maybe it's something to do with the /dev/psaux thing? I have no clue whether I have one or not, and whether it works if indeed it does exist.

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

I have the feeling like I need to ask: did you copy the above into /etc/X11/xorg.conf?

I can assure you that if you have a /dev/psaux it will be located under /dev/psaux ... also, can you please do a check-list on all of the pointers provided above, ie: kernel config, drivers, etc, and make sure you are booting the new kernel if you had to recompile for a new option. I don't want to find out some ways down the line that I'm working on some false assumption.

So, please make sure /boot is mounted before copying bzImage to /boot ... check that the number of compiles has been incremented ...

```
% uname -a

Linux aporia 3.4.5-geek-gnu #3 SMP PREEMPT Fri Jul 20 21:00:29 CEST 2012 i686 Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2500 @ 2.00GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
```

The #3 means that I've recompiled this kernel 3 times.

best ... khay

----------

## VoidMage

Not that I have a watcom device, but any reason for not using  input hotplug ?

Also, '/dev/psaux' ... honestly ?

----------

## Dodec

Khayyam: There doesn't seem to be anything resembling a /dev/psaux as far as I can see. Is this problematic? I've gone through and enabled every driver that should be needed in the kernel already. I copied your code listing verbatim info my xorg.conf. Apparently I've recompiled my kernel 5 times, if that has anything to do with anything. When I attempted to mount /boot to re-copy the kernel to the boot image just in case that didn't happen the last time I recompiled (although I distinctly remember doing so), I was informed that the mount point didn't exist. I'm almost positive that this is likely due to some stupid trivial error on my end, so hopefully it doesn't mean anything. Perhaps rebooting would help...?

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

OK, do you have a /dev/input/mice? If so then change the above to point to /dev/input/mice rather than /dev/psaux.

best ... khay

----------

## VoidMage

6 years ago /dev/psaux was already obsolete.

I would insert the standard InputClass section here, but I'm still miffed by the current udev situation (systemd thing, to be exact) and xserver hotplug kinda relies on it.

But IIRC, wacom driver should work correctly these days in that config scheme.

----------

## Dodec

I do have a /dev/input/mice, so I changed the xorg.conf file to reflect that. Unfortunately, the left click still doesn't work, and neither does the stylus. What else could be causing this?

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

If I had a M400 I'd probably have a better idea of how it should be configured, but I don't, so its mostly guesswork. So, to backtrack slightly can you pastebin the output of 'cat /proc/bus/input/devices' and '/usr/src/linux/.config' ...

```
% cat /proc/bus/input/devices | wgetpaste

% wgetpaste /usr/src/linux/.config
```

best ... khay

ps. VoidMage ... the problem as I see it is that udev, HAL, etc, just make the whole process more complex and so more prone to error. I don't think there has been any improvement, all that has happened is that the automagic has created a situation in which its now only comprehensable for RHCE.

----------

## Dodec

cat /proc/bus/input/devices: http://bpaste.net/show/38451/

/usr/src/linux/.config: http://bpaste.net/show/38452/

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

can you try changing the "Protocol" "auto-dev" in /etc/X11/xorg.conf to "Protocol" "alps".

Also, CONFIG_MOUSE_SYNAPTICS_I2C is for eXeda mobile devices, this should probably be set to =n (not sure this will cause any issues but you never know).

You might also pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log and the output of 'lsusb'.

best ... khay

----------

## Dodec

khayyam: I changed the protocol for the touchpad in the xorg.conf to "alps" and then exited and reentered my X session. I was momentarily delighted to find that the left click worked, then promptly started staring at my computer in dismay and confusion when I saw that when I clicked the eterm entry in my Fluxbox menu, it opened not one terminal, but four. I tried to close the extra windows, but they kept moving around and disappearing whenever I moused over them, and it seems now that all of my mouse activities are taken as if I was holding the mouse button down, so that whatever is highlighted by the cursor is automatically done as if I had clicked on it. This is why I currently have nine terminals, one program launcher, and one editor open, as the Fluxbox menu never ended up closing. The stylus still doesn't work, but I think it's clear that changing the protocol for the touchpad is what caused it to work, albeit in unexpected ways. What should I change it to to have the left click work normally?

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

I just don't know ... most of the information I can find on the M400 is either contradictory or incomplete. The M400 gentoo wiki page states that the trackpad is ALPS, but your /proc/bus/input/devices states its a "PS/2 Generic Mouse". Not included in your kernel, but included in kernels above, there is a CONFIG_MOUSE_SYNAPTICS_USB and then there is CONFIG_MOUSE_SYNAPTICS_I2C which the documentation informs is only for eXeda mobile devices.

This is why I asked for the Xorg.0.log and the output of 'lsusb' ... as for the wacom, again, I have no idea why it doesn't work, its enabled in the kernel, the x11 driver is installed and the deivce is defined in the xorg.conf.

best ... khay

----------

## Dodec

/var/log/Xorg.0.log: http://bpaste.net/show/39520

lsusb: http://bpaste.net/show/39521

Sorry for the delay--I've been insanely busy this week.

----------

## khayyam

ashlyw42 ...

OK, I should have said without the xorg.conf in place, but never mind. The strange thing is the mouse is reported as 3 button:

```
evdev: PS/2 Generic Mouse: Found 3 mouse buttons
```

You still haven't stated what INPUT_DEVICES are set in make.conf ... however, it seems that the PS/2 is handled by evdev, none the less please add 'mouse' to the array and re emerge xorg-server.

```
INPUT_DEVICES="evdev mouse keyboard synaptics wacom"
```

As for the wacom my suspicon is that the module isn't loaded (as it doesn't find /dev/input/wacom). Please add the following to /etc/conf.d/modules.

```
modules="wacom"
```

With all of this done mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.test1, reboot, and then pastebin /var/log/xorg.0.log

best ... khay

----------

## VoidMage

khayyam, stop treating INPUT_DEVICES as if it were magic - if we weren't talking here about touchpads/tablets, in just about all of Linux cases "evdev" would have been enough.

ashlyw42, post the output of 'udevadm info -q all' of all /dev/input/event* nodes and your complete xorg.conf (that is including all of the separate snipets). (a sidenote: I wonder how are you getting away with uvesafb - most likely you aren't, you're just keeping some old settings around)

Also, don't try using /dev/input/mice - any hints in regard of it are most likely out of date.

Not sure about wacom, but as for synaptics, IIRC default snippet should handle it correctly, base any tweaks on that one.

----------

## Dodec

VoidMage: how would I do that? I typed "udevadm info -q all /dev/input/event*" and it told me that the query needs a valid device specified by a path or a name. And I thought I posted the xorg.conf...I don't know if it had whatever snippets you're looking for though (I have no clue what you're talking about there).

----------

## VoidMage

Honestly, 'man udevadm' (or even 'udevadm info --help').

'devpath' refers to the path under /sys, 'device node' - /dev.

As for the snippets, just like the log says, besides /etc/X11/xorg.conf xserver reads the content of /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d directory.

As for xorg.conf, I want to see what did you turn it into after all these advices (probably I just need a laugh).

----------

## Dodec

VoidMage: Ok, so I did 'udevadm info -q all --path /dev/input/event*', but it told me the device path wasn't found. Also, I don't know how to get the contents of an entire directory with wgetpaste--I tried 'wgetpaste /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d', it just told me there was no such file found, and the help text did not live up to its name. Can you please just tell me up front what I'm doing wrong, and how to fix it? In case it wasn't immediately apparent, I have absolutely no clue whatsoever what I'm doing (this is my first Linux computer--I'm used to Windows, which is probably part of the cause of my technological incompetence), so something that may seem extremely obvious to you could be completely foreign to me.

----------

## VoidMage

I just said it's the other way around - '--path' is for /sys paths.

/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d is a directory, I'm interested in the files there ('cat /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/* | wgetpaste' will likely work).

Alright, let it be my pain: just put 'udevadm info --export-db' instead of the previous question. That's a lot too much, but at least all should be there.

Also, being a beginner is no excuse for not reading the docs.

----------

## Dodec

Thank you for clarifying. The xorg.conf.d files are at http://bpaste.net/show/39742 , and udevadm info --export-db is at http://bpaste.net/show/39744 .

----------

## BillWho

ashlyw42,

Reading through all the posts I didn't notice if you tried a linux live media like lmde or ubuntu to see if the touchpad works correctly with one of them.

For all intent and purposes INPUT_DEVICES="evdev synaptics" in make.conf should take care of it.

As for all the udevadm stuff, try this:

```
laptop ~ # ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/ 

input6/  input7/

```

I show two input devices - I also have a logitech wireless mouse and kb connected, With the above add input7/ as in:

```
laptop bill # udevadm test /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input7/ 2>1|grep NAME

NAME="AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint TouchPad"

```

Also check if you have a ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio0/input/ path and check that one too.

----------

## Dodec

BillWho: I tried your first command and all the variations (replacing 'seriol' with 'serial', 'i8042' with 'i686', etc.) of it I could think of, but none of them worked--they all gave me an error saying that there's no such file or directory. I made sure all the slashes were in the right place and everything (I've learned that lesson before), but to no avail.

----------

## BillWho

What do you have in /sys/devices/platform/   :Question: 

```
laptop platform # ls /sys/devices/platform/

alarmtimer/  coretemp.0/  dcdbas/  dell-laptop/  i8042/  microcode/  pcspkr/  power/  regulatory.0/  serial8250/  uevent  vboxdrv.0/

```

----------

## VoidMage

BillWho, IIRC, that syntax works only with very recent udev.

Though I agree that it looks like a module or two aren't loaded.

'modprobe wacom' and check if wacom added new event node(s).

As for synaptics, it's a bit odd - it seems it's not getting detected, but there should not be any additional kernel reqs over PS2 mouse.

----------

## Dodec

VoidMage: modprobe wacom didn't return anything. Is this good, or was something supposed to happen?

BillWho: ls /sys/devices/platform/ gave me this: 

```

# ls /sys/devices/platform/

alarmtimer     dock.1     i8042            pcspkr     regulatory.0     uevent

dock.0           dock.2      microcode     power      serial8250

```

----------

## BillWho

 *Quote:*   

> VoidMage: modprobe wacom didn't return anything. Is this good

 

Yes,there was no error loading the module.

Your udevadm list was kind of winded so return the output of this:

```
udevadm info --export-db |cut -c 4-|grep ^NAME
```

and also

```
ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/
```

----------

## Dodec

BillWho: here's the udevadm info --export-db |cut -c 4- |grep ^NAME : 

```

NAME="Power Button"

NAME="Video Bus"

NAME="Power Button"

NAME="Lid Switch"

NAME="AT Translated Set 2 keyboard"

NAME="PS/2 Generic Mouse" 
```

 ls sys/devices/platform/i8042 gave me this: 

```

driver   modalias   power   seri0   serio1   subsystem   uevent 
```

Oh wait a minute...I put 'seriol' instead of 'serio1' when I tried the first command you suggested...that might have been part of the problem... :Embarassed: 

----------

## BillWho

ashlyw42,

It looks like the touchpad isn't even detected   :Confused:   Here's my output:

```
laptop linux # udevadm info --export-db |cut -c 4-|grep ^NAME

NAME="Power Button"

NAME="Video Bus"

NAME="Power Button"

NAME="Lid Switch"

NAME="Sleep Button"

NAME="Logitech Unifying Device. Wireless PID:4004"

NAME="Logitech Unifying Device. Wireless PID:1020"

NAME="AT Translated Set 2 keyboard"

NAME="DualPoint Stick"

NAME="AlpsPS/2 ALPS DualPoint TouchPad"

NAME="Dell WMI hotkeys"
```

Notice the DualPoint TouchPad and DualPoint Stick which, I'm assuming, has to be the buttons.

I see you have a  serio1 path, but I'm stumped with seri0   :Confused: 

What does 

```
ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/seri0/
```

 and 

```
ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/
```

 return

Also

```
 uname -r && udevd --version
```

----------

## Dodec

BillWho: Sorry, that was supposed to be serio0. Here's ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio0/: 

```

bind_mode     drvctl           force_release    modalias   set            subsystem

description     err_count     id                     power       softraw      uevent

driver             extra           input                scroll        softrepeat  
```

ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/ gave me this: 

```

bind_mode      drvctl           modalias   rate               resync_time

description      id                power       resetafter       subsystem

driver              input           protocol    resolution        uevent 
```

And here's uname -r && udevd --version: 

```

3.0.17-tuxonice-r1

171 
```

----------

## BillWho

ashlyw42,

OK, udev looks good and there shouldn't be that much of a difference with tuxonice. What's the output of:

```
ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio0/input/*
```

and

```
ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/*
```

----------

## Dodec

Here's ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio0/input/* : 

```

capabilities    event4    modalias    phys      properties    uevent

device           id           name         power    subsystem   uniq 
```

And ls /sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/* gave me this: 

```

capabilities   event5     modalias    name     power          subsystem    uniq

device          id            mouse0      phys      properties    uevent 
```

----------

## BillWho

ashlyw42,

I doubt we're  going to have an epiphany with the output here, but for all it's worth:

```
udevadm info --query=property --attribute-walk --path=/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input5/
```

I noticed you mentioned a problem with the touchpad in your first post and I'm starting to suspect a hardware problem here. Did you try a live cd like lmde   :Question: 

I found that  lmde has very good initial hardware detection.

----------

## Dodec

BillWho: Ok, here goes: 

```

Udevadm info starts with the device specified by the devpath and then

walks up the chain of parent devices. It prints for every device 

found, all possible attributes in the udev rules key format. 

A rule to match, can be composed by the attributes of the device

and the attributes from one single parent device.

     looking at device '/devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input5' :

   KERNEL=="input5"

   SUBSYSTEM=="input"

   DRIVER==" "

   ATTR{name}=="PS/2 Generic Mouse"

   ATTR{phys}=="isa0060/serio1/input0" 

   ATTR{uniq}==" "

   ATTR{properties}=="0"

      looking at parent device '/devices/platform/i8042/serio1' :

   KERNELS=="serio1"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="serio"

   DRIVERS=="psmouse"

   ATTRS{description}=="i8042 AUX port"

   ATTRS{bind_mode}=="auto"

   ATTRS{protocol}=="PS/2"

   ATTRS{rate}=="100"

   ATTRS{resolution}=="200"

   ATTRS{resetafter}=="5"

   ATTRS(resync_time)=="0" 

       

       looking at parent device '/devices/platform/i8042' :

   KERNELS=="i8042"

   SUBSYSTEMS=="platform"

   DRIVERS=="i8042"

      looking at parent device '/devices/platform' :

   KERNELS=="platform"

   SUBSYSTEMS==" "

   DRIVERS==" " 
```

I believe I actually did try using the touchpad at one point when I was installing using the LiveCD, and I don't recall it working. As I said before, I also had the problem of the mouse not working in the machine's previous Windows incarnation, but it fixed itself then within a few weeks. However, it just plain wasn't working then, not interpreting everything as if I was holding the mouse down like it is now. Also, changing one of the config files (I don't recall which one at the moment) at khayyam's recommendation did restore some degree of functionality to the mouse, or at least got it to its current spastically-semi-working state, so I'm not sure if the problem is entirely with the hardware. What do you make of the command output?

----------

## BillWho

ashlyw42,

Well it pretty much just reaffirms the earlier output of udevadm info --export-db |cut -c 4- |grep ^NAME which listed NAME="PS/2 Generic Mouse". 

That's all udev is detecting so as far as the system is concerned that's it for a mouse class input device. 

I was going to suggest trying to override the rule, but honestly I don't yet understand how my touchpad is configured. Here's my configuration output:

```
laptop bill # udevadm test /devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input7/ 2>&1 |grep run:

run: '/sbin/modprobe -bv input:b0011v0002p0008e7326-e0,1,3,k110,111,112,145,14A,14D,14E,14F,ra0,1,18,2F,35,36,39,mlsfw'

laptop bill # udevadm test /devices/platform/i8042/serio1/input/input6/ 2>&1 |grep run:

run: '/sbin/modprobe -bv input:b0011v0002p0008e0000-e0,1,2,k110,111,112,r0,1,amlsfw'

```

Hopeflly someone else here with a lot more udev knowledge will chime in  because I'm at a total loss here   :Embarassed: 

The only thing I can suggest in order to eliminate hardware is the live cd I pointed out to you earlier. At the very least it would provide a direction to pursue.

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