# Kernal Panic even with Live CD [SOLVED]

## Kryptonite

Hi,

I have been a gentoo user for a long time now and this is the first time I encountered this problem. I seem to get a kernal panic everytime I boot up the system. This could happen very early in the boot process or few minutes after a successful bootup. The worst thing is this even happens when I boot the system with the live CD. Below is screenshot of the kernal panic.

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=S7007452-1.JPG

work done so far:

1. I have checked all partitions with e2fsck and reiserfsck, no curruptions found.

2. Have replaced the CMOS battery with a new one because it died.

3. I have two 256MB DIMMs installed, checked them both individualy. same problem no matter which slot i stick them in.

4. Recently done a complete world update.

My machine is a 6 year old compaq presario desktop. The kernel version is 2.6.23. I could not get a emerge --info because I cannot get a shell prompt.

I'm beginningto think if both my memory cards have died.

Any help, ideas are greatly appretiated.

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## Abraxas

What if you try booting with acpi=off?

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

Remove the cover and look at the capacitors (tall cylinders) around the CPU.

These are (mostly) parts of the voltage regulator for the CPU core, which operates at a lower voltage than is supplied by the PSU.

The tops should not be domed, no fluid should be leaking out of the bottoms onto the motherboard.

These parts get a very hard life and when the fail, the CPU core voltage cannot be held within limits so all sorts of odd errors happen.

These parts can be replaced if you are already skilled in the use of a soldering iron.

While you are inside the box, operate the system briefly and check the fans are all working. They can fail suddenly.

Also, using a stiff natural bristle brush, clean the dirt out of the CPU heatsink.

Capacitor failures cause random issues, often but not always on boot.

Thermal issues (failed fans, clogged heatsink) normally show up after booting from cold due to the system thermal inertia.

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## Kryptonite

Guys..thanks for the tips. I will try them out little later on. at the moment I'm testing the memory with memtest86+ so far it has found two errors..strange thing is I did not get any errors in the previous run..but atleast it is an indication. would you know of any tools like memtest that I can use to test BIOS, CMOS etc..??

I did not see any capaciters gone bad at the first glance but will have a thorough look after this.

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## Kryptonite

Here is a screenshot of the memory test

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=S7007453-1.JPG

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

memtest86 tests lots of things beside your RAM. 

If the errors are repeatabale at the same locations, its probably RAM.

When the errors are random bits at random locations its likely to be something else.

If you think its RAM, you may want to try the badram kernel patch. I have no idea if its still maintained.

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## Kryptonite

NeddySeagoon,

It seems I spoke too soon. Here's what have done so far.

1. acpi=off kernal flag has no effect

2. I have removed all extra pci cards and replaced the vga card with another nvidia

3. tested each memory card on both slots individualy and together using memtest86: no errors

Non of the above had made difference. I still cannot get a successful bootup from HD or LiveCD. 

weeks ago I started getting segmentation faults when I run transcode or mencoder. Then came the kernal panics. could it be the motherboard, CPU or perhaps the powersupply?

I'm out of ideas what to do next....!!!

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

It can be all of those things.

Did you check the capacitors and clean the heatsink ?

Can you test with a replacement PSU ?

Thats really the only way to check the PSU.

Its good to do a swap to see if your PSU makes another known good system bad. Thats much more convincing than making your system good by swapping PSUs.

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## Kryptonite

I did check the capaciters..no bloated ones all seems fine..I gave heatsinks a good vaccum treatment as well. no extra SPU that I can swap i'm afraid. only sparepart I had was the VGA card.

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

Can you borrow some spare parts to test with ?

Disconnect everything from the PSU that is not needed to boot. Likewise, remove all the plug in cards except the video card.

The idea is to reduce the load on the PSU to the bare minimum.  

The next test is to feel the temperature of the CPU heatsink.

If its stone cold, when mentest86 runs, thats a bad sign.

It indicates that the heat cannot cross the boundary from the the CPU to the heatsink, so the CPU is running hot.

The fix for this is to replace the thermal compoud between the two. Its not easy as you must not damage the surface of the CPU or the heatsink and the two may be stuck fast - depending on the original compound.

Clean all traces of the old compound from both surfaces and put back a smear of new stuff.

The most common mistake here is to use too much. Thermal compound is supposed to drive the air out of the irregularities of the mating faces as it conducts heat much better than air. However, its not nearly as good a metals or the silicon of the CPU, so you do not want a 'layer' in the joint.

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## DaggyStyle

question, do you have any boot parameters set?

the last error msg from your first image says unknown boot option

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## Kryptonite

I'm dont use any special boot parameters. just nox when i boot from the live cd. 

I left it running for several minutes and the observations are below.

1. I can see the both cooling fans working on CPU and Power supply.

2. CPU heat sink does get heated as one would expect.

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=S7007456-1.JPG

I'll c if I can nick a powersupply when I get to the office on tuesday. my PSU is a HP (277979-001) 220-Watt Power Supply. I found cheap power supplys on ebuyer but well over 300watts. I'm wondering if I should by a new powersupply but not sure how to choose.

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## krinn

 *Kryptonite wrote:*   

> 
> 
> 2. CPU heat sink does get heated as one would expect.
> 
> 

 

Still not a proof it's well fixed on the cpu, badly fixed heat sink = get some heat but not enough heat transfert to cool down the cpu.

You may downclock your cpu in your bios, won't fix the problem, but will delay it just a bit so you (even not a proof) will get a clearer clue.

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

AAAGHH!! A Compaq PSU.  Be very careful.

Compaq used to use the standard connectors but with the wires swapped around.

The effect was that if you put a Compaq PSU on a non Compaq motherboard, nothing worked (it was harmless) but the other way round destroyed the motherboard.

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## Kryptonite

Thanks for tip..to tell you the truth this pc was shiped with some of the worst componants in their assembly line. 

Microstar 6553 motherboard: which is not listed either on Compaq or MSI websites

apparently this motherboad and compaq powersupplys known cause problems as I found many posts online.

below link is what I think is a suitable replacement for the motherboard.

http://www.ebuyer.com/product/102909

but i'm thinking if should invest in a new powersupply first? perhaps buy this tester (http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=48647) and test the powersupply before that. 

how can I find out if my pc is an ATX or ATX2 or  3 etc..?? this machine was purchased back in 2003 so I like to assume it's ATX. I have 2 HDDs, 2 DVD burners, a floppy connected so choosing a powersupply is difficult. the current PS is 220Watts..if I fit in a 300Watts or above will it harm the motherboard??

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

Maybe you don't have the unique Compaq PSU pinout problem then, as you have a non Compaq motherbaord then?

Its worth checking the 20 pin ATX power connector wiring (looking into the pins):-

```
Orange  +3.3v |O|O|   +3.3v  Orange

Orange  +3.3v |O|O|   -12v   Blue

Black     GND |O|O|   GND    Black

Red       +5v |O|O|   PS_ON# Green

Black     GND |O|O|X| GND    Black

Red       +5v |O|O|X| GND    Black

Black     GND |O|O|   GND    Black

Gray   PWR_OK |O|O|   -5v    White

Purple 5v STB |O|O|   +5v    Red

Yellow   +12v |O|O|   +5v    Red

               - -
```

Its enough to spot the pattern in the wiring - Compaq specials do not have that pattern.

Don't bother with the PSU tester. It will not test PSUs under dynamic loads, which is what you care about and at £20, its a significant fraction of a replacement. Don't buy computer stuff from Maplin either. They are expensive for what they sell. On line computer specialists will give you better prices. For a PSU, you might even try a local computer shop.

Warning: Compaq have used odd sized PSUs. If the wiring checks out and you decide to get a replacement, take the old one to the shop to make sure its trhe same mechanical size with the same fixings.

You say your present PSU is 220W. Thats its maximum continuious output power. I would say thats low, even for a 6 year old PC. A higher rated PSU will not have to work so hard and will run cooler, which is good. It will not do any harm.

I can't advise on a replacement motherboard as I don't know exactly what parts you have in your current one.

If you can get your system to boot by underclocking the CPU in the BIOS, you could get some information out of it.

Compaq are big enough to get Microstar (MSI) to build them a special, I would not be surprised to learn thats what they did.

If so, they will have used tricks like moving the fixing holes around, so standard ATX motherboards won't fit.

You need to ask yourself if its worth spending money on a six year old bx like this before you buy replacement parts.

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## Kryptonite

NeddySeagoon, 

thanks very much for the advice. unfortunetly I already bought a tester this morning and had a go at it.

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=S7007459-1.JPG

As you can see from pictures wiring colors are quite different. when I pluged in the 20pin motherboard code (one on the right) +12v2 check is showing a fault and started flasing and beeping. now I do not know if this an actual fault or simply becuase the PSU is wired differently..??

you asked an important question. it may not be worth buying replacements for a 6 year old pc. I build this pc in to a media centre over the years with DVB, new HDDs, fast DVD buner, 4.1 soundcard and everything so buing a replacement componant is still ceaper than buying a new pc. i'm still on the fence i'm afraid. on the otherhand I might actualy digg my self a very big hole buying replacements.

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## poly_poly-man

umm - compaq was standard always. You're thinking about dell, which swapped stuff around (also had an extra connector for a period of time)

EDIT: either that, or this is news by me. Looks like the OP just has a bad psu...

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

All the numbers look  ok except the 12V2 which reads like LL in the photo.

Don't get to hung up on the colours of the wires as long as all the wires for the same voltage are coloured the same and are in the same pins as my ASCII art. Different vendors did change the colours but kept to the standard pinout.

Not all PSU vendors provide a -5v supply as it was only ever used for DRAMs that needed four power supplies and they stopped being used with the introduction of the IBM AT with the 286 CPU.

PSU good came good in 250mS, so the PSU is within reasonable limits under the test conditions, which will be static loads.

Do your own ASCII art of your ATX connector or provide a photo or two of the wiring and I'll look it over.

If you are going to spend money, a PSU is lower cost than a motherboard, so its the one to replace first.

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## Kryptonite

NeddySeagoon,

Here are wiring for the ATX connector. I'm not sure how to place voltages though.

```
+5v +3.33v +12v +12.8v 11A 15A 5A 7.5A 0.15A 3A
```

```

  Brown  |0|0|  Brown

  Brown  |0|0|  Blue

  Black  |0|0|  Black

    Red  |0|0|  White

  Black  |0|0|  Black

    Red  |0|0|  Black

  Black  |0|0|  Black

   Grey  |0|0|

  Green  |0|0|  Red

 Orange  |0|0|  Red

```

Spec: http://www.newpowersupply.com/compaq_hp_q220pc3p_atx_220w_compaq_evo_series_power_supply_bulk_pack_refurbished-pr-406-c-18-p-1.html

Photo: http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=S7007470-1.JPG

I think it checks out if you swap few colors. the pattern seems to be the same. could it be that there is really a fault in the SPU...?? It's a bank holiday today so I think I would take it apart and spot anything obvious. I might get lucky.

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

Thats a standard ATX pin out with the wire colours changed and the -5v supply missing.

Thats ok as the last systems to use the -5v were 286 based ones but the ISA  and then the PCI spec required it to begin with.

Your Black is GND, thats standard,

Your Red is +5v, thats standard.

Your brown is 3.3v - my orange.

Your Orange is +12v, so you should have red orange and two black wires in your disk drive power connectors.

Looking in your PSU tester image, I can see two reddish wires but not tell them apart.

Its quite safe to replace your PSU with a standard ATX PSU provided the case and fixings are suitable.

Thinking about what the +12v would be used for on your motherboard, I'm a little bit at a loss. Its provided to PCI slots and its used by the serial port inputs and outputs which need +12 and -12v  It is unlikely to be used for the Vcore regulator in a six year old system but I can't read the voltages on the  two large silver capacitors between the CPU and the video card (close to the CPU).

If they are rated at less than 12v, your Vcore is derived from the +5v and the +12v is used only for the PCI slots.

That does not mean your PSU is good, just that the +12v supplied to the motherboard is unlikely to be the problem.

============  Edit =============

  Compaq HP-Q220PC3P ATX 220W Compaq Evo Series Power Supply Bulk-Pack Refurbished

Thats a warning if ever there was one. Its the same age as your own PSU and probably had just as hard a life. It is the same part as your own PSU, both are pn 277910-001. Look in the top right hand corner of your image. 

Unless its a special case size, get a standard ATX PSU, around 300w

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## Kryptonite

You are indeed right about the wiring on molex HDD power connectors. Orange, red and in-between the two blacks. 

it reads 6.3V on the two tall silver capacitors next to the CPU. so could it still be derived from +5V like you mentioned??

my understanding is that the PSU tester beeped on +12V2 test because it was too low and given the wiring on the ATX connector is indeed standard that might be the fault...the simplest reason

I'd looked up many PSUs on ebuyer but non of them that I can afford do not match the dimensions. they are 97mm(H), 130mm(W) and 154mm(L) approx.

If I buy a little smaller standard PSU I'm worried the screw nuts will not fit on the casing and I would still have to buy extra cable converters. e.g. P3 and a really rare two pin fan connector P9 I think.

I found an OEM PSU on ebay for 20quid...used of cause..I'm tempted to buy this one..If it could get me through for another 6, 7 months I'd be quite happy..

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

As the capacitors say 6.3V, they cannot possibly be used on the +12v - they would explode.

Its unlikely that the +12v supplied to the motherboard is actually used there except by the UART for tthe serial ports and supplied to the PCI slots.

It is unlikely to directly account for the problems. However, regulation of all the different voltages is not independent.

It may be interfering with the +3.3v or +5v regulation.

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## pappy_mcfae

If I may butt in, from the photo of the inside of the machine, I can see your heat sink is nearly plugged solid (or was at the time of the photo). Also, with those wires hanging precariously close to the heat sink, I can see an overheat in your past. Blow everything out (PS included). If this issue remains, changing the board might not help.

The only way to know for sure is if you set your kernel for MCE, and also loaded the MCE software. Rumor has it that MCE only works for x86_64 systems. However, if you find errors in /var/log/mcelog, your CPU has gone on to greener pastures. It should remain an empty file.

Was it an Intel or an AMD chip?

Blessed be!

Pappy

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## Kryptonite

Hi..It's an AMD Athlon xp 2100..FYI I don't think there was any overheat as I did not see any indication of such. the motherboard looks absolutely fine. 

NeddySeagoon,

my question is this..if the ATX connector is indeed standard and PSU tester indicates a fault in the 12v power supply. couldn't that be the problem..?? even if it is not directly powering up the motherboard...may be it's causing the PCI cards to act strangely hence by screwing up the interrupt system.

from your opinion whats the best way forward...? should I invest in the OEM PSU I found on ebay...?

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

Even though the *possibly* defective +12v is not used on the motherboard, the defect could cause problems with other voltages.

The defect is not so bad you cannot run memtest, so whatever it is, its good enough for that.

Pappy knows his stuff but as you can't boot I doubt its a thermal issue now. From cold, the heatsink would have enough thermal inertia you get to boot.

The next test is to get into the BIOS and set your front side bus as low as possible, probably 100MHz, and see if the system will run underclocked. 

Before I spent any money on that system, I would want to test with borrowed parts.

There is still not enough information to diagnose the problem.

Did you get my PM with possible sources of such parts ?

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## Kryptonite

I did get your PM. thanks for that. I'd like to give it try but I really need a quick solution as it's been two weeks already. so I'm gonna try to find a spare PSU from the office. will keep u updated.

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## Kryptonite

Hi NeddySeagoon,

Finally I had some time to get back to this. could you possibly give me some pointers on how to underclock the FSB please? There are no such option on BIOS setup. my BIOS is very basic. so I suppose I have to do this by changing some jumper settings on the motherboard.....????

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## NeddySeagoon

Kryptonite,

Sometimes its BIOS, sometimes its motherboard jumpers, sometimes a mix.

My nForce2 board supports 100, 133, 166 and 200MHz FSB.

The 100, 133, 166 are in the BIOS with a jumper in one position, the 200MHz needs the jumper to be moved.

Often, the purpose of the jumpers and the setting is written close by on the motherboard.

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## Kryptonite

Unfortunately I can't workout anything mate.. 

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=S7007474-1.JPG

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/image.php?img=S7007488-1.JPG

perhaps i'm better off buying a used PC on ebay n sticking in the extra parts..!!!

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## Kryptonite

Hi NeddySeagoon,

I tested with borrowed parts and it seems the motherboard is faulty and there is a chance that the PSU tester I bought from Maplin is faulty as well. that's 25quid I'm never gonna see. Anyways I bought a used P4 PC on ebay and it's sorted. 

Thanks for the help.

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