# [NVIDIA FREEZES SYSTEM] an AGP 4x/8x problem (SOLVED)

## pathfinder

Edit: SOLVED: the card was defectuous!!! Once changed, great with 100.14.19 nvidia drivers!

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Hi guys,

I ve got a really annoying problem with a card I bought. My motherboard is AGP 4x and this card is 8x.

So they told me it wouldn  t be a problem, the card would just work at 4X and that s it.

I ve done so far all the tests one could imagine. It s definitely not working.  There IS a problem with the AGP 4X setting.

the club3d team sent me this mail

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Sometimes changing AGP speed improves stability. Some motherboards do not handle current generation AGP cards well. AGP 4x setting and AGP sideband addressing switched off may help also disable AGP fastwrite (motherboard BIOS settings).
> 
> 

 

The problem is my system (i updated the BIOS too) is not able to tune any these settings (checked with the Dell technical support)

And the last lat last chance is to tune this by the kernel.

Is this possible? Is there a way?

here are the lspci and kernel config:

 *Quote:*   

> milkyway linux # cat .config | grep AGP
> 
> CONFIG_AGP=y
> 
> # CONFIG_AGP_ALI is not set
> ...

 

 *Quote:*   

> milkyway linux # lspci          
> 
> 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE/PE DRAM Controller/Host-Hub Interface (rev 01)
> 
> 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE/PE Host-to-AGP Bridge (rev 01)
> ...

 

If you need anything else...

the kernel version is 

 *Quote:*   

> # uname -pmrs
> 
> Linux 2.6.22-gentoo-r2 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
> 
> 

 

The computer is old, with a 64Mo card. That s why I had to change it in order to use it for a couple of years (even 4)...

I bought the only nvidia (See ATI reticent compatibility with compizfusion) card with PCI (not PCI-e) and 256Mo... 

But the system always freezes randomly when the card is used (TV, DVD, video, 3D games). Pacmanarena and neverball being the TESTERS: in 1sec time the system s just frozen. Same happens in windows, in ubuntu, with a new gentoo freshly installed, with a genkernel, with different kernel versions.

Not a temperature problem, not a power problem, not an IRQ conflict:

 *Quote:*   

>  # cat /proc/interrupts 
> 
>            CPU0       
> 
>   0:   14834214    XT-PIC-XT        timer
> ...

 

I ve really looked EVERYTHING and some Great Gys helped me finding the trouble: the card is the problem. but i need to be sure the AGP4X solution is not possible before trying to change it, as there is no possibility to get another one of such specs.

If you could help me on that point (the message in RED and its kernel implications), I d be so glaaaaaad

Have all a nice dayLast edited by pathfinder on Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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## kiksen

You could try removing intel agp support from your kernel and use nvidia's (built into the kernel). Maybe you can force it with

Option "NvAGP" "1"

in your xorg.conf Device section for your card. My bet would be you'll have to compile a kernel without the intel agp driver.

HTH

/kiksen

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## pathfinder

but the nvidia one is for the Nforce chipset, isn t it?

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## kiksen

You should not select *any* AGP driver in your kernel. nvidia-drivers should take care of it with the NvAGP option. At least it's worth trying.

/kiksen

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## pathfinder

do you mean that I should disable ALL the AGP support in the kernel?

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> milkyway linux # cat .config | grep AGP
> 
> CONFIG_AGP=y                      SHOULD THIS BE SET TO NO?
> ...

 

And then let nvidia-drivers manage the thing?

with maybe an appropriate flag in xorg.conf?

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## pathfinder

ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-8174/README/32bit_html/appendix-f.html

i m reading this, this is interesting. Had no clue about it. I might have some alternatives now.

Thansk a lot.

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> milkyway ~ # cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/card 
> 
> Fast Writes:     Supported
> ...

 

i should try to disable AGP, see what happens

then change the kernel options and check them against the ubuntu one (seems all the kernels detected the same settings)

then force the 4x speed, though it seems to be 4x as a setting as explained in the link.

 *Quote:*   

> The following AGP chipsets are supported by NVIDIA's AGP driver; for all other chipsets it is recommended that you use the AGPGART module.

 

 *Quote:*   

> Supported AGP Chipsets
> 
> Intel 440LX
> 
> Intel 440BX
> ...

 

my lspci says

 *Quote:*   

>  # lspci 
> 
> 00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE/PE DRAM Controller/Host-Hub Interface (rev 01)
> 
> 00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE/PE Host-to-AGP Bridge (rev 01)

 

so i guess it is supported? it s not exactly the same...

so i disable the AGP in the kernel, but the intel one AND the AGP support?

in the kernel help it is said that I should say YES to the AGP support if I want to use  DRI or GLX 

What should I do?

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## pathfinder

bad news...

tried without AGP INTEL but with AGP support and AGP NVIDIA MODULE, NO WAY   (module loaded or not)

same but AGP NVIDIA built in, NO WAY 

(but the game lounches and instead of freezing in 0.5 sec it's about 2 secs... sometimes 5)

then tried with both described and xorg.conf forcing NvAGP option...  same results.

still have to try with NO AGP support at all... (but I remember it was needed for other things in my config, such as fbcondecor and splashutils...)

and forcing the Nvidia AGP in xorg.

Still have to try with new nvidia drivers  (....)

Should I disable the AGPSUPPORT in the kernel at all?

Should I enable it with the nvidia-agp support in the kernel as a module?

Should I disable everything in the kernel and let the xorg.conf do the job?

What exactly happens when I emerge nvidia-drivers? Does that create a patch for the kernel and put the module built in the modules.autoload?

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## kiksen

Yes, disable agp support in kernel. If you need framebuffer support, use vesa or vesafb, but get your graphics working before you try any of that.

/kiksen

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## pathfinder

Hi,

bad news...

I disabled AGP support in kernel (I mean: /etc/init.d/xdm stop, rc-update del xdm defaults, emerge -C nvidia-drivers, rm /lib/modules/2.6.22xxxx/nvidia.ko, cd /usr/src/linux, ..., mount /boot, ... new kernel entry in grub.conf,... rebooted the computer)

lsmod -> no nvidia module loaded (ok)

then mount /boot and cat /boot/confignoagp | grep AGP -> nothing in AGP

then emerge nvidia-drivers 

lsmod (i think no nvidia was loaded)

xdm start

neverball or neverputt or pacmanarea or movies or TV or whatever using video -> system frozen.

then rebooted, lsmod and modprobe nvidia if not loaded, xdm start, and again, crash

I did this with no AGP support at all in the kernel

Should I try now with AGP support and Nvidia chipset in the kernel?  (I did it, though no with such rigor in my checks at each step)

should I change the .run.sh of nvidia as explained in the nvidial guide?

 *Quote:*   

> AGP Rate
> 
>     You may want to decrease the AGP rate setting if you are seeing lockups with the value you are currently using. You can do so by extracting the .run file:
> 
>         # sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8174-pkg1.run --extract-only
> ...

 

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## kiksen

I suggest you leave AGP support out of the kernel and follow the nvidia guide.

/kiksen

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## DancesWithWords

 *kiksen wrote:*   

> I suggest you leave AGP support out of the kernel and follow the nvidia guide.
> 
> /kiksen

 

I've similiar issues which are yet unresolved.  Just a note: genkernel does not seem to allow you go disable AGP.  I could be wrong, but is what it looks like to me.  I'm seen this on the 2.6.20 and 2.6.23-r3 kernels.

--

DWW

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## kiksen

Hmm. Don't know about genkernel, I've never used it.

/kiksen

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## pathfinder

that s my very last chance.

I left AGP support out of the kernel and I followed the Nvidia guide. No way to work (still have to change manually/force the speed)

am i f*cked?

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## kiksen

I don't know. I'm out of ideas - we're way past the problems I've ever had  :Sad: 

Someone else may be able to help?

/kiksen

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## fatcop

I remember quite a while back I had a similar problem with higher order AGP cards.

You problem could be hardware, even though "they" said it would be fine.

This has some info:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/faqs/kb/10,63.html

cheers

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## The Unknown

I have to ask, and I apologize if this is a dumb question, does your card have a 4-pin molex power connecter? and do you have it plugged in?

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## pathfinder

no molex power...  :Smile: 

fatcop:   that s great,... i m reading a lot... this could be THE problem

i m trying to find out with Club3d, dell to know more and get explanations with the voltage power.

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## pathfinder

Question

Which NVIDIA video cards support the AGP 1.5 volt spec that my motherboard requires?

  	Answer

The Geforce family and Quadro family based cards can operate at AGP 1.5 volts. Some of the older Geforce and Quadro cards follow the AGP 2.0 spec (AGP 4x and AGP 2x) meaning they will operate at 1.5 volts or 3.3 volts. The newer video cards follow the AGP 3.0 spec (AGP 8x and AGP 4x) meaning they will operate universal at 1.5 volts and .8 volts. This operation is negotiated automatically and is not a user defined option.

For more information please contact your card vendor.

from http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=72&p_created=1097182603&p_sid=Bt84PxBh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0xOTYmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=

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## pathfinder

answer from the vendor:

 *Quote:*   

> GeForce 7600GT SHOULD work fine on AGP 2.0.
> 
> If you suffer from instability and regular BIOS adjustments on motherboard level are not solving the problems, you can look into driver and BIOS updates for your motherboard. If this is also not improving your results I strongly suggest to check the card in a second system (not identical).
> 
> If the issues are gone, you probably have a motherboard not supporting the GeForce 7600GT very well. Please try this.

 

I updated the BIOS to the latest version. I tried everything.

I now have to plug this card in a pretty old system (hardest part) with neverball or pacmanarena to see whether it freezes the system (playing movies or 3D apps would do the same but in a longer time)

Dell also told me my mobo was  an AGP2.0 one (AGP4X at 1.5Volts)

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## DancesWithWords

Well after much reading I believe I've sorted out my Vid-card issues.  Apparently the Tyan Tiger K8W S2875 mobo has very very pick AGP.  It was recommended that you use only the vid-cards on the Tyan website for that particular mobo.  So I took that advice and bought a used ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb card.  I'm now 3 days and not a single freeze up.  So I can say I'm quite happy.  Now I've got to sell my Sparkle Geforce 9700 512mb vid-card as it is a big useless to me now.

So to wrap things up for me: Nvidia was not the specific source of my issue, but rather is pick AGP chipset.

--

DWW

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## pathfinder

update:

I tried the vid card on another PC, with AGP8x mobo.

No way for it to work nor in Linux nor in Windows.

The card is the DLWK JOPEGIOPJWE^?D

I called the RMA 3 or 4 months ago and he told me "no way the card is not ok: I ve sold tons of these cards and none has returned with a single problem: it must be something else, keep looking".

So my question will be more general:

would you mind, guys, emerging neverball and check whether it bugs in your computer? Would you mind trying in Linux and in windows?

I tried in 3 different PCs in Windows, it runs well.

But I tried in 2 other PCs with my vid card, and it crashed every time...

As for the nvidia vendor (Club3D), here is his reply (many thanksfor your valuable help and patience)

 *Quote:*   

> Dear,
> 
> Considering all your tests, looks you did not forget anything, it is very likely the GeForce 7600 card is defective. Please return the card to your store for RMA.
> 
> 

 

This does not mean a new card (provided it still exists) would work fine, because there still might be incompatibilities in voltage. But at least, I am fixed for this one, and there is one little little little hope that, in case they find another 7600GT AGP card, (or better, but must be nvidia and AGP), the card could work on my ssytem.

Thanks to you all.

(not solved until new card confirms everything or neverball statistics come  here)

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## pathfinder

hi guys, just an update...

they confirmed the card was damaged. (imbéciles!)(iif they had listened to me 6 months ago...)

Now the card has been sent to the fabricant, and they ll decide whether they have to change it or repair it (!!!!!!!!!?????? I don t  want it to be repaired! Isn't there a big probability of not repairing it correctly!?).

well, I fear I ll have to wait, roughly 3 weeks, then we ll see.

----

Our Patience will achieve more than Our Force.

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## pathfinder

Hi guys, 

for those still reading this post, I apologize, cause I don t have any news. It's just because I noticed the post were removed when not being read nor edited for a while, so I am just going to refresh it a little.

y next post will have answers regarding the card.

I have 3 possibilities:

- the new card (hope it s a new one) works like a charm

- the new card is not compatible with my computer (and I ll have to deal with the solutions)

- the new card is being damaged by my system due to a voltage incompatibility (is it possible?)

Actually, 4:

- they haven t repaired the card properly and it is still buggy (that s why I plan to make them try it in front of me, in the same RMA dept.

I have 33% of chances the card will work. Not too much :S

Anyway, it's been more than 3 weeks and they told me yesterday it would be a month. G|@#~@½|@#

Patience...

Another question: in the case the card works perfectly, I would love to change the graphical display (Dell 1702 FP). Do you think it will work well (I mean, the display is ruled by the card power, isn t it? will be there problems due to my old arch? P4 2Ghz, 1Go RAM

Then, do you think it is better to buy a TV 26'' or a PC TFT 26''?

TRhe resolution is different, and I don t know the time response differences...

I would love something wall adaptable, and with really THIN borders.

Is there a model you would advise me? Do you prefer FLAT TVs or PC TFT? (TV are cheaper I think, for a smaller res)

What is the 1080p thing? Is my card able to use it?

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## pathfinder

OK

I finally received the new card.

They changed it, it was defectuous. They also told me they tried with neverball again, and that it was working well now.

I ll give a try this afternoon after work and I ll give you feedback.

Hope this will soon be solved!

And HOPE there won t be incompatibility voltage between my mobo and my card (AGP 2 vs AGP3)

Then, my question is:

Do you prefer LCD flat panels for computers or LCD TVs pugged to the computer?

I want  a 26 or 32 inches. But with a great quality...

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## paulbiz

Congratulations on receiving a new card, hopefully it will work.

For me, I prefer an actual monitor instead of a TV. But it depends on what you want to use it for. I have a TV to watch movies on, and computer to do "computer stuff"  :Smile: 

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## pathfinder

yes but what about time response and pixels/ resolution on both?

what is better?

I mean, is there a problem for widescreen TVs used as main screen? 

((btw, can t try the card now, was doing some important things)

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## paulbiz

I have 20 inch (1600x1200 pixels ) LCD dell 2007FP monitor about 2 years old (manufacture date) on my PC, and 42 inch (1920x1080) LCD Philips TV about 6 months old (manucature date). I think the quality of the Dell monitor for PC use is far superior. Colors are brighter, blacks are darker, pixels are sharper. The TV tries to do too much "TV Stuff" in my opinion, automatically adjusting colors, contrast, sharpness, overscan, etc. 

The PC Monitor & DVI connection = perfect pixels, no trouble... or maybe I just don't have the right TV for it   :Razz: 

I will also add both my PC monitor and TV have S-IPS panels and that makes a difference... avoid TN panels if you can.

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## pathfinder

 *Quote:*   

> I will also add both my PC monitor and TV have S-IPS panels and that makes a difference... avoid TN panels if you can.

 

S-IPS?

what si TN?

I thought C were best too. But max size = 24", isn t it? It s too small for me. Please let me know if some configurations made the TV better. 

Right now: a HUGE problem: I have troubles with the card: I cn t install it!!!!! argh! no way!!!

my steps:

# rc-update del xdm default

# edit /etc/modules.autoload.d/kernel-2.6 and comment the line nvidia.

# edit package.mask commenting the line where I masked those nvidia drivers > 97.06

# reboot the computer

# lsmod gives no nvidia loaded.

# emerge -av nvidia-drivers (told me about a conflict in /lib/kernel.../video/ cause there was a nvidia.ko file

# rm this file, and emerge again.

# eselect blablabla, etc-update, env-update, source /etc/profile.

#lsmod: no nvidia loaded

# I start xdm: fails (first time it failed it was saying No drivers. No drivers found. whatever: it was due to the package collision and the already existing nvidia.ko

# modprobe nvidia

# start xdm:

ERROR: /etc/X11/startDM.sh.  Line 28, 14295. Segmentation Fault 

Could not start the display manager.

!?!??!!?!?!!

I am LOST. 

I have no idea of how to solve this! i don  t have internet (am in windows now) unless i use links (no thanks)

did not find anything on the web...

Anyone?

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## pathfinder

100.14.19 soved the issue

works like charm

dunna why 169.21 are dodgy

is there any real difference for my card?

it s awesome right now: some colors (in a web page) were not seen, even some light greys did not appear at all.

the compiz-fusion is much more smooth, quick, and the TV (though not installed in the correct way) is nice too.

I should just try to scan the closer DVB channels.

For the flat panels question: are there 26" PC screens? what prices?

is it worth?

do you think my PC will be able to manage such a screen?

(this card is cool, 7600 GT, but it is not KILLING anything, it just works)

Is there a way (game, whatever) to see if the card works welll under hard conditions?

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## The Unknown

I have to agree with paulbiz if your going to be using it for pc use, e.g, sitting at a desk right next to it, desktop environment or whatever. A monitor

is the way to go. TV's were not meant to be seen that close and your eyes will thank you for it. Not to mention that there is a difference in the way they display, tv's tend to be interlaced or progressive and they scan by line, monitors with straight pixels. Also monitors have higher resolutions and a lot faster refresh rates. Then there is also overscan issues with tv, etc.

 *Quote:*   

> is there any real difference for my card?

 I don't think so, I have the same card and played with both I couldn't tell the difference.

 *Quote:*   

> Is there a way (game, whatever) to see if the card works welll under hard conditions?

  Compile something and spin the cube   :Smile: 

Tips you may already know,

Make sure that you have "mtrr" support in your kernel.

You should be able to use the "TripleBuffer" and "RenderAccel" options in Xorg with out any problem.

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## pathfinder

i did not know those tricks...  :Sad: 

i ll have a look

thanks for your opinion for screens.

What implies then the 1080i at 1900x1200 the card is able to provide: won t it increase the TV screen performance?

Another one:

are there "cheap" huge flat monitor panels? (i mean more than 24")

edit:

I added TripleBuffer, BackingStore, DamageEvents. (RenderAccel was already present).

I also read about Option "ConnectedMonitor" "DFP"  -> this is only when using DVI. I have plugged both to my card, is it stupid?

Now i read in an old beryl post:

Deactivate Sync to VBlank?

deactivate Detect Refresh Rate?

field Refresh Rate, value betwenn 100 and 200. Does anyone have feedback there? it was for beryl, in the general panel config settings of beryl... does it stil exist? i ll have a look at the results once at home.

Well, I read in http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/How_to_install_NVIDIA_driver#Tweaking_NVIDIA_drivers that: 

Use this option if your GPU has plenty of ram (128mb and more) and combined with "Sync to VBlank". You may enable sync to vblank in nvidia-settings.

so i shall enable sync to vblank in  nvidia-settings  (opposite idea of the previous one)

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## The Unknown

 *Quote:*   

> What implies then the 1080i at 1900x1200 the card is able to provide: won t it increase the TV screen performance?

 Yes, 1080i is a high definition resolution(1080p is the highest right now), if your TV can support this, it will look really good and sharp. But the downside is, if the content that you are trying to view does not utilize this e.g is not high definition content, it will not make a difference, in some cases it will look terrible.

 *Quote:*   

> are there "cheap" huge flat monitor panels? (i mean more than 24") 

 

Well when I'm bargain shopping I always start at Pricewatch.com

I see a few there that are reasonable.

 *Quote:*   

> Now i read in an old beryl post:
> 
> Deactivate Sync to VBlank?
> 
> deactivate Detect Refresh Rate?
> ...

  If you would like a really good understanding of the subject, check out this guide http://www.tweakguides.com/Graphics_1.html

Read pages 9 through 12, or all of it if you like.

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