# [FAQF] KC6: Which sources?

## RioFL

MOD EDIT: This thread is the discussion area for this FAQ. --plate

Is there some kind of 'features' docs for kernels that explain the differences in the different types, such as alan cox kernels vs vanilla vs gentoo sources.

I have yet to know exactly what patches gentoo-sources uses and why. I tried to find just the preemption patches for vanilla kernels at kernel.org and drove myself totally insane with it.

This is an area that knowing what options are available in what maintenance-line that make that different than another would be very helpful and educational.

Many people just don't have time to thumb through install scripts and source code trying to find differences and even then they may not fully comprehend what they are reading. A simply explained comparison documentation would be a great help to many people.

Chuck

----------

## steveb

documenting that kind of difference is very difficult, because the added kernel patches to the diffrend kernel trees are changing with each kernel release and each kernel sub release.

i don't know if any1 would be so insane to take the time and docuement this "moving target".

cheers

SteveB

----------

## plate

Moved from Other Things Gentoo (which it isn't, really).

----------

## RioFL

 *steveb wrote:*   

> documenting that kind of difference is very difficult, because the added kernel patches to the diffrend kernel trees are changing with each kernel release and each kernel sub release.
> 
> i don't know if any1 would be so insane to take the time and docuement this "moving target".
> 
> cheers
> ...

 

I don't think I said it properly:) I didn't mean detailed docs such as all the changes why and wherefores, but more.. what makes alan cox's kernel tree so much better (if it is) than the standard tree, or than gentoo sources tree... or what makes the gentoo sources patches so great.. maybe a bit more generic than I led you to believe I was talking about:)

I have absolutely no clue what makes the -ac tree so much in demand, and to be honest it scares me when I run a 'gentoo sources' which is heavily patched, but "with what and why" ? The gentoo sources kernel runs well, I am not kicking it I will take it over vanilla sources any day, but "why" is it better?

Chuck

----------

## steveb

 *RioFL wrote:*   

>  *steveb wrote:*   documenting that kind of difference is very difficult, because the added kernel patches to the diffrend kernel trees are changing with each kernel release and each kernel sub release.
> 
> i don't know if any1 would be so insane to take the time and docuement this "moving target".
> 
> cheers
> ...

 

okay... now i see.

i can not answer your question because i don't know 100% what the differences are.

but if you want to understand this topic, then i would suggest you to get more information on how the linux kernel is developed. and i don't mean the technique used to develop the kernel! i mean the organization of how new features and updates go into the kernel. then you will probably understund much more why developer are producing patches and why other kernel tree maintainers are using those patches.

in general i would say, that another kernel tree then the vanilla kernel has features wich you don't find vanilla kernel for serval reasons:

- it could be, that the specific functionality/patch will never ever make it into the vanilla kernel

- it could be, that the specific functionality/patch will be available soon in the vanilla kernel, but for organisational/political/whatever reason it is not in the current kernel.

- it could be, that the specific functionality/patch is enhancing one or serval aspects of a kernel, while breaking other things and that linus think that that kind of specialisation will cause more trouble for the normal user and he is not willing to use that kind of functionality/patch in his vanilla kernel

- it could be, that the specific functionality/patch is something very special and the combination with other kernel patches (wich are as well applyed to the specific kernel tree) will never ever make it in that kind of combination into the vanilla kernel

- etc, etc, etc....

so if you want to be on the save path, just use the vanilla kernel and live with it. when the vanilla kernel does what you want from it, then everything is okay. but maybe you will miss a function/feature and then you will look around and then you will probably find a patch or a nother kernel tree wich will suite your needs much more and then the vanilla kernel will be history for you... just use linux and the kernel and as time pass by, maybe your needs will change and then is the time to think again about your desission....

cheers

SteveB

ps: sorry for my bad english...

----------

## RioFL

Oook. :Smile:  I have been using vanilla kernels for a few years now, and the gentoo sources kernel is the first non-vanilla kernel I have used. It is incredibly "peppy" and I love the preemption abilities, but I had to find this out by actually using the kernel. I had no idea it had preemption in it until I put it in. To me that is a MAJOR difference between it and the vanilla kernels, yet nowhere , absolutely nowhere did I find anything mentioning preemption in this kernel!  Thats what I am talking about I guess. I do not like to just use something blindly to try it out. I am NOT an experimenter nor do I have the time for it. I manage 51 servers which is in itself a 24/7 job and I use these machines to do it with. Any performance increases/nice little features that any kernel makes available that I can use, I want to know about. I cannot find that kind of information anywhere unless I decypher every changelog which even then doesn't tell me much and takes WAY too much time. I guess I want 'things linux' to be as simply and quickly explained as 'things windoze' so I can just go to a spec sheet and compare. 

Linux has come a very very long way, and it is about time it starts offering things like that or else somewhere along the line, it may miss a chance for even more inroads into the 'windoze kingdom'.

Even in the website listings of the kernels in portage tree.. "complete gentoo sources" Complete alan cox sources". tells absolutely nothing. A nice little VERY generic : "this kernel has high performance patches, preemption and specialty hooks for........" is all that is needed for each one being offered. just that kind of description. complette sources says absolutely nothing except the person who set the offering up on the site was hard pressed for a description:)

<off soapbox>

guess i will always wonder what i truly have in my kernel until i go thru the source line by line during a month long vacation or something.  i can think of lots better things to do with vacation time:) like get AWAY from computers!

Chuck

----------

## steveb

ahh... okay... i get it.

maybe you could start just by looking at the description of the kernel:

```
# emerge -s $(ls -1 /usr/portage/sys-kernel/)

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : aa-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/aa-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.21_pre4-r3

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 30,390 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for Andrea Arcangeli's Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : ac-sources ]

[ Applications found : 2 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/ac-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.21_pre4-r6

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 29,727 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for Alan Cox's Linux kernel

*  sys-kernel/rsbac-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 27,237 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.rsbac.org

      Description: Rule Set Based Access Control (RSBAC) Kernel Patch

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : acpi-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/acpi-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r9

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 27,326 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the latest ACPI Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : alpha-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/alpha-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r2

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 2,890 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo Linux Alpha kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : ck-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/ck-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r3

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 28,143 kB

      Homepage:    http://members.optusnet.com.au/ckolivas/kernel/

      Description: Full sources for the Stock Linux kernel Con Kolivas's high performance patchset

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : crypto-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : development-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/development-sources

      Latest version available: 2.5.63

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 30,974 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : gentoo-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/gentoo-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.19-r10

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 28,035 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : gs-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/gs-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.21_pre4

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 30,720 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: This kernel will hopefully stay up to date and stable for livecd

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : hppa-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/hppa-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20_p27

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,899 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Linux kernel with patch for hppa

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : ksymoops ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/ksymoops

      Latest version available: 2.4.8

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 63 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/ksymoops/

      Description: Utility to decode a kernel oops, or other kernel call traces.

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : linux-headers ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/linux-headers

      Latest version available: 2.4.19

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 25,432 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Headers for the linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : lolo-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/lolo-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20.2_pre2

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 29,115 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for lostlogic's Gentoo Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : mips-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/mips-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.19

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,031 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo Linux MIPS kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : mjc-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/mjc-sources

      Latest version available: 2.5.59-r1

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 31,531 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : mosix-sources ]

[ Applications found : 2 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/mosix-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 27,008 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/ http://www.mosix.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo Mosix Linux kernel

*  sys-kernel/openmosix-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r2

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 27,216 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/ http://www.openmosix.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo openMosix Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : openmosix-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/openmosix-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r2

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 27,216 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/ http://www.openmosix.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo openMosix Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : ppc-sources ]

[ Applications found : 4 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/ppc-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r3

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 27,954 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo Linux kernel

*  sys-kernel/ppc-sources-benh [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r5

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,937 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/benh/

      Description: PowerPC kernel tree based on benh's patches, -r corresponds to ben{r} versioning

*  sys-kernel/ppc-sources-crypto [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,980 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.kerneli.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full cryptoapi enabled sources for the Gentoo Linux PPC kernel

*  sys-kernel/ppc-sources-dev [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,854 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full developmental sources for the Gentoo Linux PPC kernel - Experimental!

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : ppc-sources-benh ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/ppc-sources-benh [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r5

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,937 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/benh/

      Description: PowerPC kernel tree based on benh's patches, -r corresponds to ben{r} versioning

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : ppc-sources-crypto ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/ppc-sources-crypto [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,980 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.kerneli.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full cryptoapi enabled sources for the Gentoo Linux PPC kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : ppc-sources-dev ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/ppc-sources-dev [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,854 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full developmental sources for the Gentoo Linux PPC kernel - Experimental!

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : redhat-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/redhat-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20.2.48

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 37,771 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.redhat.com/

      Description: Kernel source tree used in Red Hat distributions (not supported by Red Hat)

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : rsbac-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/rsbac-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 27,237 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.rsbac.org

      Description: Rule Set Based Access Control (RSBAC) Kernel Patch

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : selinux-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/selinux-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,977 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.nsa.gov/selinux

      Description: LSM patched kernel with SELinux archive

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : sparc-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/sparc-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,822 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Gentoo Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : usermode-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/usermode-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 2.4.19-r48

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 25,600 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://user-mode-linux.sourceforge.net

      Description: Full (vanilla) sources for the User Mode Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : vanilla-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/vanilla-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,778 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the Linux kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : win4lin-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/win4lin-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20-r1

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 26,977 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the linux kernel with win4lin support

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : wolk-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/wolk-sources [ Masked ]

      Latest version available: 4.0_rc1

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 35,162 kB

      Homepage:    http://wolk.sourceforge.net http://www.kernel.org

      Description: Working Overloaded Linux Kernel

Searching...   

[ Results for search key : xfs-sources ]

[ Applications found : 1 ]

 

*  sys-kernel/xfs-sources

      Latest version available: 2.4.20_pre6

      Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ]

      Size of downloaded files: 29,964 kB

      Homepage:    http://www.kernel.org/ http://www.gentoo.org/

      Description: Full sources for the XFS Specialized Gentoo Linux kernel
```

and if you spot something wich you like, then you can allways go to the homepage and read more there or hit google with some of the keywords in the description and look what kind of info you get back  :Smile: 

cheers

SteveB

----------

## plate

One FAQ to find them all, and in the darkness bind them: KC6: Which sources?  :Cool: 

Now, additions to the descriptions in there are most welcome. It'll probably stay rather superficial as it is intended to a general audience, but if everybody is ok with this thread here becoming the official discussion related to the FAQ, we can insert some of your observations into the kernel mug shots in KC6.

----------

## RioFL

 *plate wrote:*   

> One FAQ to find them all, and in the darkness bind them: KC6: Which sources? 
> 
> Now, additions to the descriptions in there are most welcome. It'll probably stay rather superficial as it is intended to a general audience, but if everybody is ok with this thread here becoming the official discussion related to the FAQ, we can insert some of your observations into the kernel mug shots in KC6.

 

VERY interesting! Thank you! That is very similar to what I had in mind and it cleard up the mystery surrounding the Gentoo Sources kernel for me:).  Some things though which this did not address... I go back to Alan Cox.. I understand he is primarily a network code developer and I think he works for Redhat? Nowhere can I find what makes his kernels so much in demand. Or is it that his kernels are primarily "all things networking" ?  Just little things like that, for all the ones that are offered on this site would be nice.. A lot of work initially, but even through kernel versions, the various "people kernels" will not change their basic perspective. Like mjc kernel.. reading the description in the portage tree left me just as confused as before except that by the kernel version this person does something "cutting edge".

I think we need a kernel area to talk about things too.. I notice a curious lack of one, yet no matter what utils/progs/daemons/scripts are run, the kernel is the heart of the personality of the installation on someone's machine. My vote is let's keep going and maybe some of us can learn more about this. I can configure a kernel very tightly for several needs, but to know which kernel to pick sometimes is a major headache.

Chuck

----------

## RioFL

Steveb, a bit too long to quote:)... true, but even then many times there is the time element again in researching things. I really wish I had even 2 hours free to be able to research things, but believe me after 16hrs in front of this thing, I am glad to be rid of it totally when I finally walk out of here to relax or sleep. You can argue about the time I am taking to write these messages as research time, but I am writing them inbetween things at work when I have a second or two 'breather'. 

A "one stop shop" is what I am attempting to motivate here. There is none and I believe it is sorely needed both as an information item and a convenience to the linux community. The old unix belief that you must sweat blood before you can truly find what you are looking for, and become exasperated so badly your blood pressure is uncontrollable doesnt work any more. Today we need convenience because there is simply too much to sort through now for any one person to handle it.

I had to do that quite a bit for my first qmail install, and if there was a single good resource for more than just elementary or classic installs, I would have saved literally 3 to 4 weeks of research!

Unfortunately, in my job, when I need an answer, I usually have to come up with it 5 minutes before I needed it, so the ability to research things is a luxury I don't have. And now that need for single resource information is becoming more and more prevalent for everyone. I think that if somehow the single information areas like the good documentation that is on this site were increased to many other things, gentoo can be considered *the* distro with all the answers:)

Chuck

----------

## plate

Bump. Please note the title change and yet another move of this thread, this time to Documentation, Tips & Tricks. 

This is now the official discussion thread for KC6: Which sources?

----------

## dreamer3

 *RioFL wrote:*   

> I guess I want 'things linux' to be as simply and quickly explained as 'things windoze'...

 

Then use vanilla sources and pretend there are no others... that's Windows in a nut shell.  :Smile:  If Windows is "easier" in this department it's because there is no freedom/choice... unless you mean Windows 2000/XP (NT) vs Windows ME (the last of the 9Xs)... there is a kernel choice for ya.  :Wink: 

----------

## RioFL

 *dreamer3 wrote:*   

>  *RioFL wrote:*   I guess I want 'things linux' to be as simply and quickly explained as 'things windoze'... 
> 
> Then use vanilla sources and pretend there are no others... that's Windows in a nut shell.  If Windows is "easier" in this department it's because there is no freedom/choice... unless you mean Windows 2000/XP (NT) vs Windows ME (the last of the 9Xs)... there is a kernel choice for ya. 

 

Not what I meant:) I am talking about explanations of what is out there and why it is different than something else. Freedom of choice should not come at a high price of time and effort. If the item is out there, it should be documented as to *why* it's out there. It's "common courtesy common sense" documentation and distributions is what is needed. 

It pisses me off no end when I get a great little prog only to find it requires some obscure library that is only available via a trek across the arctic and takes weeks of searching to find. Common sense would say to include that library or just statically link it, and if prevented by the author, give a pointer url to where it can be obtained.

Like when I was studying qmail. Some of the patches talked about smtp return  code xxx but with no text explanation of what that  code was. It was only by accident I stumbled across the error code listing several weeks after I didn't need it any more and the document I found it in belonged to a windoze program!

What I am tired of is the entire "unix" community taking it for granted that everyone has gobs of time to search for obscure things that if the author would take 4 more minutes to document, would save people a lot of headache. Unix style (including linux) documentation/assumtions are about the absolute worst I have ever experienced. Even IBM mainframe o/s docs are better. The LDP and documents on this site are a good attempt at correcting this but still have a long way to go. The docs on this site are very specific and good, but also have errors in several of them. It's like the writers didn't follow their own documentation pretending to "know nothing" otherwise they would have found them.

Good documentation can be read by the absolute novice and not leave them hanging, yet read by the seasoned administrator and not insult him. I am not just saying this because this is a gentoo site, but the docs I find here, most closely match that criteria of any I have ever read. Each doc has links pointing to good docs on items that are beyond the scope of the current doc. Excellent. Other places leave you hanging to search for everything yourself. To me that is either utter stupidity or utterly egotistically lazy on the author's part.  

My need for good kernel comparisons and whys is something that I find sorely lackiing in the linux community. Why is that? Why do people ignore something that important?  I have no desire to become a kernel guru yet I have to, to be able to even come close to answering my own questions. To me that is just plain wrong. So I just "pick one" based on one line explanations and hope it's close to what I need/want. I would *love* to have a Gentoo Sources kernel also have UML built in with options to turn preemption on/off in each virtual machine (hint) but that may be technically impossible.  Actually a linux top layer kernel that works like vmware's esxserver would be perfect. Boot only that lean top layer, and proceed to create your vms. But I digress... I tend to wander this late at night so I'm ending it before I write a book about nothing. I may have a more intelligent post tomorrow after a bit of sleep:).

Chuck

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## dreamer3

 *RioFL wrote:*   

> My need for good kernel comparisons and whys is something that I find sorely lackiing in the linux community. Why is that? Why do people ignore something that important?  I have no desire to become a kernel guru yet I have to, to be able to even come close to answering my own questions. 

 

Perhaps it's because no one else has the time either... we all fool around, find something the works well and use it... few of us can say more than "my way works good" which isn't very good for comparison.  Perhaps it's best this way... more on that later...

 *Quote:*   

> I would *love* to have a Gentoo Sources kernel also have UML built in with options to turn preemption on/off in each virtual machine (hint) but that may be technically impossible.

 

Considering that the prempatable or not virtual machines would either be pre-empted or not by the REAL kerenel I don't think it would have the desired effect, though there might still be come difference between the approachese even in UML (keep in mind i have NO UML experience).

 *Quote:*   

> Actually a linux top layer kernel that works like vmware's esxserver would be perfect. Boot only that lean top layer, and proceed to create your vms. But I digress...

 

Keep dreaming... Linus was once...

 *Quote:*   

> I tend to wander this late at night so I'm ending it before I write a book about nothing.

 

With regards to wondering... it's great to have a nice write up about each kernel in one place, so you can make an educated decision... but even if that were the case, who'd do the writeups?  Which benchmarks would be used, would the write-up party be un-biased?  Would you read an article on selecting the best Linux kernel if it were on msdn.microsoft.com... Who do we trust... too many people today trust too many other people ot make their own decisions for them... but you say "WAIT, the decions really mine"... true it is... but only a %  :Smile: 

If the #1 Gentoo autorithy said reiserfs was suddenly corrupting lots of systems... people would stop using it for a while and stick to ext3... vise versa... but put all that authority in the wrong hands (think MS) and you get someone elses opinion of what works well.

I know I'm rambling and you think it's not an issue with Linux but if a central authority were to emerge... it could say and do things to influence Linux distributions... etc... la la la la... ok, enough conspiracy theories.

I'm going to try the ck-sources tonight, read a long thread and a lot of good things about them... I'll let you know  :Smile: 

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## TheCoop

what patches do the gaming-sources kernel have? aa-sources? ac-sources? ck-sources? wolk-sources? what is hppa?

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## noff

These descriptions could be added.

ck-sources - Kernel patchset by Con Kolivas containing high performance patches for the desktop.  Focuses on stability and performance.  Follows stable kernel.  http://members.optusnet.com.au/ckolivas/kernel/

wolk-sources - Kernel patchset contain large amounts of patches.  This set is heavily modified with every bugfix and many performance features.  Follows release of stable kernel.  Has full development cycle.  http://sourceforge.net/projects/wolk

ac-sources - Kernel patchset of Alan Cox contain large number of improvements.  Used as a testbed to stable kernels.  Follows prerelease kernels.  Usually better hardware support than the stable kernel. Updated often.

aa-sources - Similar in form and function to ac-sources, released by Andrea Archangli.  Contains a lot of vm work and improvements to interactivity.

lolo-sources - Testbed for gentoo-sources.  Contains more performance patches.  Created by lostlogic and is Gentoo only.

mm-sources - Released by Andrew Morton rapidly changing kernel of patches for the development kernel.  Lots of work on all areas of the kernel.  Updated usually daily or more.

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## RioFL

cool! thank you! In about a month, my work will slow down enough I will have a few hours each day to play, so I think I am going to install each of those and explore system personality with each one.. I think a generic system performance report may go nicely with those descriptions.

to make matters fair, i will burn a cd of all the usual things installed in portage and also freeze the portage version onto cd so all things will be equal.

(back to work:( )

chuck

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## plate

noff, thanks a lot, I've incorporated your descriptions just now. I've also started adding some non-x86 kernels, any suggestions?

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## noff

It looks to me that ppc seems to be the only one with multiple kernel trees.  Maybe a request in gentoo ppc could yield some responses.

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## plate

Could someone check the document in its current state and fill in some of the blanks? Comments and better ways to explain some kernels are also highly appreciated.

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## noff

gs-sources - Kernel to be used on the Gentoo Livecd.  

gaming-sources - Modified ck-sources enhanced for use in gaming by Gentoo maintainers.

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## noff

mjc-sources - Michael Cohen's series of patches for performance enhancement.  Seems to focus on latency.

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## plate

Thanks! That's a very nice collection we have now. I'm still unsure about some of the descriptions, anybody knows better ways to put it, fire at will.   :Cool: 

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## Narada

Hello.  When I do an emerge -vp gentoo-sources I get the output:

```
Calculating dependencies ...done!

[ebuild   R  ] sys-kernel/gentoo-sources-2.4.20-r1  -build +crypt -xfs
```

According to this output the acpi4linux use flag is no longer in use by gentoo-sources and as such you may want to modify the description to be in line with it.

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## plate

Thanks a lot! You're right, USE="acpi4linux" has disappeared entirely from the list of valid use flags, too.

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## Lovechild

# ck-sources: Kernel patchset by Con Kolivas containing high performance patches for the desktop. Focuses on stability and performance. Follows stable kernel. More information here. 

Should be

# ck-sources: Kernel patchset by Con Kolivas containing high performance patches for the desktop. Focuses on improving system responsiveness Follows stable kernel.

CK is not safe, it's responsive (desktop user real world fast), but not fast (benchmark fast) - but includes only a very few of the stability fixes that are available, so I feel that the word "Stability" is misleading, also even his homepage only states responsiveness as the goal.

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## Luguber

This reply was meant for RioFL so it might be a little bit off-topic.

I recoginiced my situation as a sysadmin a couple of years ago, tho there were only like 30 servers, but in a quite mixed environment (Sun, SGI, SCO, MS). Most where linux, after my initiative, so as you might understand it was quite embarassing to ask MS-people for advices. I also had trouble integrating qmail with php, ldap, mysql etc. and time felt more like a bonus than a factor. After a while I realized that my troubles came more or less because of stress not because of the documentation were insufficient. One pointer I'd like to give you (RioFL) is that it's not commonly called a community without a reason, there are tons of people that run into the same problems as you and me. Imho the community is at it's best when you take it to a personal level and join a irc-channel/news-group with personal request, the chances of actually having lots of people in the community working for you are not to be underestimated. Nowadays there are even ways to get on irc/news encrypted so that there is no way that those MS-people will know what you are doing  :Smile: 

I do not mean to undermine the gentoo-forum in any ways, in my oppinion it's the best thing invented since the DIP-Switch  :Smile:  The gentoo irc-channel is also extremely friendly and helpful and provides answers for things you could not imagine any irc-idler were capable of.

No pun intended, just a little walk down memory lane and a half empty bottle of congac (having my birthday party today and where am I spending my time  :Smile: 

Actually, if there is anything, server related, you are free to message me and since I'm having quite a lot of time off nowadays, I voulenteer to do research for free, just to keep up to date with "emerging"-technologies  :Smile: 

The obligatory excuses for my lousy non-oxford-english.

Regards!

-Luguber

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## plate

Lovechild, thanks a lot. You made me go to the website and see for myself...   :Cool: 

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## strolls

I recently installed the ebTables kernel patches from on to the vanilla kernel. I have this retarded obsessive thing, however, that I'd rather just use an unpatched (or rather, pre-patched) set of kernel sources than doing it myself.

Does anyone know if any of the kernel sources available through portage have these patches applied..?

Thanks,

Stroller.

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## Luguber

I've now tested a lot of sources ac/aa/mm/gentoo and now finally ck-sources. I've not done any scientific testing procedures, just played a little around with the system after booting the various sources. So far the only source-kits that seems to give a little extra performance and responsiveness is the mm (2.5 development) and the ck-sources. I've chosen the ck-sources because I could get most of the drivers for my motherboard (Asus A7N8X) to work with it. The ck-sources outranks the gentoo-sources when it comes to scheduling. I'm running 3 compiles in the background as root, and my desktop (running as a mortal user) still seems quite responsive, no jumpy mousepointer or slow startuptimes. The compilations even seems faster  :Smile: 

The next kernel I'd like to try is the gentoo-live-cd sources, gs-sources wich seems to have some neat features that I didn't get to work when making my own config. ie. my motherboards onboard 3com card (I think it's a 3c920).

Does anyone else have some reports on performance with the different kinds of sources?

Regards!

-Luguber

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## Luguber

 *Quote:*   

> I recently installed the ebTables kernel patches from on to the vanilla kernel. I have this retarded obsessive thing, however, that I'd rather just use an unpatched (or rather, pre-patched) set of kernel sources than doing it myself. 
> 
> Does anyone know if any of the kernel sources available through portage have these patches applied..? 
> 
> Thanks, 
> ...

 

I think as it says on the page you linked to that the development sources contains this patch.

mm-sources and development-sources should contain these patches if that is true.

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## Narada

Hello. Today when I searched for acpi-sources I realised that it had disappeared completely from my portage tree.  I sync with rsync.uk.gentoo.org.  Has this just happened to me or to others too?  The acpi patch for gentoo sources dates back to 22 Nov 2002.  Anyone had any luck with using a more recent version of acpi either through a prepatched kernel or a self patched one?

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## dreamsofxion

Yeah, I'm resurrecting the "dead"...

I'm reinstalling Gentoo on my desktop after a quite lengthy stint in Debian-world...I just got tired of having older packages in Sid that still broke things... *grumbles*

However, I run Gentoo on my laptop and so I've been trying to follow the different kernel sources...

Now, the question...in a roundabout way...

I have a SGI Indigo 2 that I finally got the IRIX CDs for...however, it appears that the CD-ROM drive for the Indigo isn't quite kosher (I probably either don't have something terminated properly or am improperly addressing which SCSI ID the drive is...this is what I get for going 3 years without working on an SGI...) and would love to be able to use the NFS install of IRIX...

...but the IRIX CDs are written in XFS...

...but I want the desktop to run either gentoo-sources or ck-sources...

...but I need the Zaurus patch from gentoo-sources...

So, the question boils down to if it's possible to reletively easily create a bastard kernel using a mish-mash of different -sources patches...

...and while I haven't tried yet, it appears to me through looking through the gentoo-sources-2.4.20-r2 ebuild that mayhap the USE="xfs" might be depreciated...is this the case, or could I, in theory and practice, just jumble together some USE flags to create said bastard kernel?

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## TheCoop

it would be better to emerge vanilla-sources, download all the patch files for gentoo-sources, ck-source and xfs-sources (look in the ebuilds for what files you need) and patch the sources yourself

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## dreamsofxion

A'ight...that's what I was intending on doing, but wasn't sure if there were some of those nifty hidden USE flags...

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## dh003i2

These are all nice one-liner explanations. Unfortuately, they don't really tell me much. I can tell that I'm probably going to be interested in the performance/desktop-performance enhancing kernel, which includes gentoo's kernel and the ck kernel. However, I have no basis to compare.

Yep, that's a performance-enhancing patch. Yep, so is that one. Err...which one should I use?

What we need are benchmarks for solid comparisons between these various kernels. People spend hours and hours and hours benchmarking the latest greatest graphics card, which'll cost you 300 dollars, and will certainly perform better (though not amazingly so) than the others. Why not spend some time benchmarking the kernel's, something we can get for (f)Free?

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## Lovechild

Maybe we should give the Gaming-sources a bit more exposior, it's a nice little kernel - although based on CK it seems hellishly stable and still very responsive.

Another thing, Jay Pfifer or whatever, would I convince you to change the name of that kernel, it's damn hard to test it when I can't remember it's name, let alone spell it... Gentest-sources might be good - also implies purpose.

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## KiTaSuMbA

What I think is a correction:

I've been running ck-sources for quite some time and previous to that wolk. The all have preempt and low-latency enabled and, guess what, I use XFS... I didn't have any problems so far with the filesystem although I've had a nice share of crashes (especially with -ck5, it's been a disaster as even Con admitted - I think they are out of the portage already).

On the "general feeling": -ck feels great on the desktop although I think it just burns more ram when pushed around than a vanilla one. Oh and don't expect g++ to go any faster  :Twisted Evil:  - it's just that you don't have to wish it did with your mouse pointer stuck someplace...

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## max_colby

 *Lovechild wrote:*   

> Maybe we should give the Gaming-sources a bit more exposior, it's a nice little kernel - although based on CK it seems hellishly stable and still very responsive.
> 
> 

 

Is gaming-sources an appropriate name?

I've never tried it because I'm not a gamer and didn't think it would benefit a desktop user, but it's ck-sources + some patches and fixes + the neat Gentoo related stuff I'd been patching ck-sources with after.  Gentoo-sources just has too many patches that I don't need, but gaming-sources seems just right.

I agree, considering how popular ck-sources seems to be amongst Gentoo users, this kernel could use a bit more exposure.

I'm not sure what a more accurate name would be though.  Calling it desktop-sources might do the opposite and turn gamers away - so a similar problem exists regardless of what the name is.  It just seems like patches in gaming-sources aren't that  gamer specific.

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## Fryguy

I think it should also be important to distinguish which of these are based on stable (even-numbered) kernels, and which are based on devel (odd-numbered) kernels.

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## NorthGoingZax

Do any of these 2.4 based source include alsa ?

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## BillyBlue

Hi there,

which kernel should be faster (more perfmance) the ck-sources or the mm-sources? I need a fast high-performence-kernel with xfs-support for multimedia/gaming. Thanks a lot!!

- bb

[current running the ck-sources]

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## chronic1

what happened to the xfs being included with the gentoo sources when you had USE="xfs"  It now tells me to use the xfs-sources.  Is there a way to get all the  patches included with the gentoo sources with the xfs source?

----

i apologize for this post...i just found another thread pertinant to this issue

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## joeldg

I run the openmosix rc-4 patched kernel on several machines and have had no issues with it. On the cluster we have one redhat box patched to OMrc4 which works.

The way that OM is, the kernels need to be basically identical for everything to function right, so I know for a fact that there are not a lot of "gentoo specific" patches to the source tree for that particular ebuild.

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## Sven Vermeulen

Gentoo now has an official Kernel guide which describes all possible kernels. You can find it on http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-kernel.xml

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## beza1e1

It says the kernel optimized so i can listen to music, while compiling without hangs ... this does not work for me. Do i have to enable special features?

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## bsolar

 *beza1e1 wrote:*   

> It says the kernel optimized so i can listen to music, while compiling without hangs ... this does not work for me. Do i have to enable special features?

 

It works for me with a vanilla kernel. But maybe having a Penium4 2.4Hz 1G RAM helps...  :Rolling Eyes: 

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## Sven Vermeulen

If you still have musichangs during compilation, you can try renice'ing your compiler so that it runs with a lower priority. The manpages of "nice" and "renice" will help you further with that.

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## Insanity5902

What has happened to the gaming-sources, they aren't in portage anymore  :Sad: 

I have been getting my kernels from kernel.org (old habits die hard) and decided to try to emerge my next one.  I was going to use the gaming-source after reading through all the docs but it isn't in portage and it isn't in the gentoo kernel doc either.

So what happened to it?

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## Unixworld

This thread is pretty much outdated, would someone with the knowledge

for it please update it for the noob-to-Gentoo-newcomers ?

Thanx in advance !

Cheers

----------

