# Suggestion for a good audio card

## marco.difresco

Hi all,

currently I have a Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro and I am not satisfied with it and since after various researches I made in the last few months (to try to solve the problems I will indicate below) I read many comments that claim that Creative isn't really the top of computer audio cards (both in term of hardware and drivers quality) as many "lay people" like me assume it is, I decided to get a new one.

What audio card do you suggest that is well supported under Linux?

I do not produce audio content, I just need it for play music, movies and games. While I do not have professional keen hears, I would like to have a card that is as excellent as Linux-possible as I am passionate of trailer music and sometime I hear classical (that are both very immersive if well outputed) and as for movies and games I definitely like to notice as many little details as possible.

As for output devices, right now I am using exclusively a "Razer Carcharias Professional Gaming Headset", but I will soon receive a Trust 5.1 speakers system (I don't know its quality as I got it free with a local store fidelity points, but if I get promising results with a good audio card, I will be probably willing to upgrade - so I don't want to hold back on the audio card quality).

As for the budget I would like to stay around € 250 ($ 320); I could round up a little bit, but only if the card is really good and well supported under Linux. I guess (correct me if I am wrong) that for the sake of compatibility I would be better off with a PCI-E card with regular 3.5 jack connections (I will get the PCI-E slot out of the Creative X-Fi that it is currently occupying it and the headset I am using has the regular 3.5 jacks).

As for reference about my dissatisfaction, the Creative X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty works sufficiently well (but not excellently well for its €157 at the time of purchase) if I use just ALSA and just a regular audio player + a not audio-intensive app (i.e. app with occasional sound feedback for certain actions), but for everything else I have problems.

With just ALSA often it had the problem that somehow the output suddenly stop and I get instead a continuous pulse of static; sometime it happened after hours of computer use (I usually leave it on 24/7) and sometime after just few minutes. To solve I had to either:

- close all the applications that used the soundcard and re-open them;

- if that failed (most of the time), I had to log off and log back KDE;

- if that failed too, I had to reboot the whole computer.

It happened most frequently (but not exclusively, so it was just a matter of bring up the problem more easily) with the combo firefox-flash-youtube + wine-LOTRO (just to immediately exclude the most obvious solution here, LOTRO is the only game and Windows sofware in general that I am keeping using constantly and for everything else I am doing better with Linux than with Windows, especially after 6 years from conversion, so there is not going back  :Very Happy:  ).

For about a month I have being trying PulseAudio and I no longer have the static pulses crashes, but the quality of the sound (especially on Youtube videos) are slightly (but sufficiently audible) distorted.

As I mentioned I tried to search for solutions around the web, but with no avail (I am giving the benefit of doubt that maybe I have just kept missing the holy grail solution, but at this point I am exhausted of keep trying with trial and error test on this single area).

I tried the card under Windows (for a while I had to dual-boot to play SW:TOR since at the time it wasn't supported by Wine) and I had no issues, so I exclude that it is defective (so no point to call for the warranty) and since I  purchased it on July 2011, I cannot expect to simply return it as not satisfactory (I made the mistake of tolerating it too much in part because I was hoping that maybe the drivers weren't fully finished yet and would improve in time, and on the other hand because up until few months ago, when I returned to play LOTRO, the issue with ALSA was more rare and therefore more tolerable).

Thank in advance.

----------

## duby2291

I didnt read your whole post. Really I just read the title.... High end card, no hardware mixer, but excellent linux drivers. Sound is absolutely phenominal....

http://www.htomega.com/claro2.html  <== This is your card....

But if you still want a fantastic card That is a bit easier on you wallet. Mid end card, no hardware mixer, excellent linux driver and the sound is still absolutely phenominal.....

http://www.htomega.com/striker.html

HT Omega.. They make awesome quality cards. I have both and either one is awesome. They both use C-Media chipsets. One uses the cmi8770 chipset and the other uses 8788 chipset.

----------

## marco.difresco

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> I didnt read your whole post. Really I just read the title.... High end card, no hardware mixer, but excellent linux drivers. Sound is absolutely phenominal....
> 
> http://www.htomega.com/claro2.html  <== This is your card....
> 
> But if you still want a fantastic card That is a bit easier on you wallet. Mid end card, no hardware mixer, excellent linux driver and the sound is still absolutely phenominal.....
> ...

 

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try to look for a vendor here in Italy.

----------

## duby2291

 *marco.difresco wrote:*   

>  *duby2291 wrote:*   I didnt read your whole post. Really I just read the title.... High end card, no hardware mixer, but excellent linux drivers. Sound is absolutely phenominal....
> 
> http://www.htomega.com/claro2.html  <== This is your card....
> 
> But if you still want a fantastic card That is a bit easier on you wallet. Mid end card, no hardware mixer, excellent linux driver and the sound is still absolutely phenominal.....
> ...

 

If you can't find that specific brand. Try to find one with one of the C-Media chipsets. They are well supported on linux with very good ALSA drivers in kernel.

I like HT Omega because of the quality of the boards and components they use. Whatever you find just check to make sure the quality of the product is good.

----------

## gorkypl

If you can stick with stereo sound, the best option would be using external DAC, feeded via USB, which gives the ultimate quality and eliminates the hardware noise from PC.

Two good options below 250EUR are: 

- HRT Music Streamer II+: http://www.headfonia.com/hrt-music-streamer-ii-2496-usb-dac/

- ODAC: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/odac-released.html

----------

## aCOSwt

I presume you get some on board HDA or equivalent.

Can you tell us what's wrong with it ?

----------

## roarinelk

Buy speakers, an external receiver and amp and connect it to the *digital* output of

your motherboards integrated audio system.

----------

## marco.difresco

Thanks all for the suggestions.  :Mr. Green: 

First thing: while returning home from work I remembered that I had the old SB Audigy 2 ZS in a drawer; I installed it and now I am no longer having the distortions with PulseAudio (I have yet to try with just ALSA).

Now this give me the time to study the upgrade more calmly. I still want to upgrade since, even if I don't longer have the distortions and the output seems generally clean (probably the Audigy emu10k1 driver is more stable than the X-Fi ctxfi driver), after few songs I am already noticing that it is a little bit less "immersive" than the occasions where the X-Fi worked (i.e. under ALSA-only with a single audio player and no other major sound-intensive software running concurrently); and if the X-Fi was not a great card, I can assume I can get a better sound with a better setup.

If you wonder why I switched to X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro: one day the Audigy suddenly stop working; I checked the logs and there were no errors and the headset plugs seemed plugged correctly so I thought that the card just died so I compulsively ordered a new card (and as I mentioned on the original post, as a "lay person" in audio I made the mistake to believe that Creative was the top). The day after for other reasons I had to open the computer and for the sake of testing I unplugged and plugged back the Audigy and it started to work again, but since the order for the X-Fi was already sent out I decided that I could well keep upgrading to the incoming card and keep the Audigy as backup.

 *gorkypl wrote:*   

> If you can stick with stereo sound, the best option would be using external DAC, feeded via USB, which gives the ultimate quality and eliminates the hardware noise from PC.
> 
> Two good options below 250EUR are: 
> 
> - HRT Music Streamer II+: http://www.headfonia.com/hrt-music-streamer-ii-2496-usb-dac/
> ...

 

While I am just using the headset right now (I still have to unpack the Trust 5.1 system due to space constraint), I am looking forward to have a surround system.  :Wink: 

 *aCOSwt wrote:*   

> I presume you get some on board HDA or equivalent.
> 
> Can you tell us what's wrong with it ?

 

Well ... I am embarrassed to admit, but due to a bad experience in the waaaay past (15 years  :Rolling Eyes:  ) with a (cheap) eMachine that had a too noticeable (but insufficiently, considering it was a cheap computer, to call it defective) interference noise, I always distrusted the integrated sound cards. in fact I originally upgraded the audio of that PC with a Sound Blaster Live and since then I always kept the habit to have a dedicated audio card over the integrated one on all the computer thereafter.

Eventually tomorrow (it is already midnight here in Italy) I can give it a try. My motherboard (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/P6X58DE/#specifications) has a Realtek ALC889 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC; how does it compare to the SB Audigy 2 ZS in terms of hardware and driver support?

 *roarinelk wrote:*   

> Buy speakers, an external receiver and amp and connect it to the *digital* output of your motherboards integrated audio system.

 

For the external receiver I am guessing the DAC gorkypl mentioned, or something else? Sorry, but I am little bit newb with the terms.  :Embarassed: 

----------

## duby2291

 *marco.difresco wrote:*   

> 
> 
> Well ... I am embarrassed to admit, but due to a bad experience in the waaaay past (15 years  ) with a (cheap) eMachine that had a too noticeable (but insufficiently, considering it was a cheap computer, to call it defective) interference noise, I always distrusted the integrated sound cards. in fact I originally upgraded the audio of that PC with a Sound Blaster Live and since then I always kept the habit to have a dedicated audio card over the integrated one on all the computer thereafter.
> 
> Eventually tomorrow (it is already midnight here in Italy) I can give it a try. My motherboard (http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/P6X58DE/#specifications) has a Realtek ALC889 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC; how does it compare to the SB Audigy 2 ZS in terms of hardware and driver support?
> ...

 

That isnt a bad audio chipset that you have onboard It has very good ALSA drivers in kernel right now... The problem is the quality of the audio circuits and board design. Generally speaking dedicated sound cards have better opamps or better DACs or better circuit layout, or all of these things. I most motherboards the audio circuits run straight past the high frequency circuits that the NB, CPU and RAM use. This places limits on how the audio components are placed.

All in all most people probably just don't care that the sound isnt as good cause its good enough, but if you do care get a dedicated card.

----------

## Mad Merlin

I'd be interested to know if any modern sound cards still have hardware mixers. I've been hauling a PCI SB Live! from computer to computer for over a decade now as it sounds fine to me and has a hardware mixer, but I expect my next computer may not have any PCI slots any longer, so I'll need a new sound card.

The cards mentioned above do not have hardware mixing and the other promising lead I found (the Xonar) also does not have a hardware mixer. Google suggests that at least the Audigy 4 supports hardware mixing, but how about the newer cards?

----------

## duby2291

 *Mad Merlin wrote:*   

> I'd be interested to know if any modern sound cards still have hardware mixers. I've been hauling a PCI SB Live! from computer to computer for over a decade now as it sounds fine to me and has a hardware mixer, but I expect my next computer may not have any PCI slots any longer, so I'll need a new sound card.
> 
> The cards mentioned above do not have hardware mixing and the other promising lead I found (the Xonar) also does not have a hardware mixer. Google suggests that at least the Audigy 4 supports hardware mixing, but how about the newer cards?

 

the good ones don't... I mean we arent rockin 486 SX2's anymore. CPU performance is now such that having a hardware mixer means little. Plus hardware mixers are limited only to their capability. A software mixer can do whatever its programmed to be capable of.

----------

## syn0ptik

why not E-mu or you want take 5.1 channels on output?

----------

## PaulBredbury

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> having a hardware mixer means little

 

Not for games. When the CPU and GPU are being stressed to achieve 60 frames-per-second smoothly, taking the time to perform mixing on the CPU, and service the soundcard interrupts, adds noticeable jerkiness.

People need to actually try this for themselves, as I have done. With a decent soundcard and decent speakers/headphones, one can realize that e.g. the song being played has the vocalist singing twice at different tones.

Built-in motherboard audio is poor quality, suitable only for crappy speakers.

----------

## duby2291

The quality of sound suffers tho, and the drivers for Audigy werent very good when I tried it. I kept hearing audible pops. Many other at the time experienced the same thing. I'm sure it must be fixed by now tho.

EDIT: wow that thread you posted is 6 years old and what you said in it still applies even now. No way would I suggest an X-Fi to anyone ever. I wouldnt recommend an Audigy over anything with a C-Media chipset. It's OK if that what you have, but if your going to buy a card buy a good quality card. The truth is that software mixers are surely nice to have if you need one, but I'd argu that most folks could very easily get away with nothing more than ALSA. I've never experienced any pops, skips, stutters or any anomaly. And I've been known to put my CPU under extreme load while playing games and watching movies.

----------

## Ant P.

I use an Aureal Vortex II - supports 32ch mixing and sample rate conversion, 10 band EQ (controllable from alsamixer), and drivers that don't crash. The sound quality is probably at the limit of what you can get without an RF-shielded breakout box, given that these were originally $100 cards. The only area they're lacking is driver support for the 3D spatial rendering hardware, but OpenAL can do HRTF in software now so that doesn't matter.

They're going for $5 on eBay last I checked. May not be compatible with your needs though since they only support 4 channel surround.

----------

## PaulBredbury

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> I kept hearing audible pops

 

Well, I never did. Are you getting confused, and thinking of one of the models of Audigy that *isn't* hardware-mixing?

My post isn't as old as it looks - the Gentoo forum isn't showing my edits, because it's the last post in the thread. I should have listed the edits to it, I suppose.

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> extreme load

 

You're missing the point. Hardware-mixing cards are easier on the CPU, plain and simple. I know this because I tried it myself, testing a variety of soundcards in the same PC.

----------

## optiluca

Ciao Marco,

I would just try the onboard audio: on board HDA support in linux is really good, no strange configurations required at all.  Just alsa and nothing else.  While I don't know exactly what model of Trust 5.1 speakers you have, Trust is a pretty "cheap & cheerful" brand, so I can virtually guarantee that the sound card is not going to be the limiting factor in your system.  I suspect that the Trust system in its entirety costs well under the 250 € you would spend...

I use quite nice headphones (300+ €) with an integrated sound card, as even in this case the improvement offered by an expensive sound card/DAC is pretty marginal...

----------

## PaulBredbury

 *optiluca wrote:*   

> pretty marginal

 

Have you tried a decent soundcard in your system? It's a quality thing. Sell your headphones for a €5 pair  :Wink: 

----------

## optiluca

I have, and it's really quite a small improvement.  Admittedly, the headphones have quite low impedance (approx 30 ohms), so unlike some other models (with impedances north of 500 ohms) they don't put too much strain on the amplification stage of the card.  As for the DAC, diminishing returns kick in pretty early on there.  I don't doubt that spending good money on a sound card will get you a better product, I am just saying that for driving speakers of the (rather lowly) calibre of a Trust system the difference is going to be virtually nil.  Spending an extra 250 € on the speakers would be leaps and bounds better.

----------

## marco.difresco

Regarding the Trust speakers, the box just says (I still have to open it) "Soundforce 5.1 surround speaker system".

As I mentioned, I have them right now only because I got them free with a store fidelity points; eventually I can sell them over eBay to get some "money back" (after all I earned those fidelity points by buying products   :Rolling Eyes:  ) to put on the budget pool.

Just a note on the speakers matter: while I do understand the rule of the weakest link (it isn't worth to have a great audio card with crappy speakers and viceversa), due to space constraints and other reasons I will have some time gap between the purchase of the audio card* and the speakers; but since I am counting to solve the limitations within a medium-range time, for the time being I am focusing on the audio card* that will both support the 5.1 output (and if the budget will support it at the time, maybe even a 7.1 system even if I will use it just occasionally) and that works the best both in term of output quality and as Linux support.   :Wink: 

BTW, as I mentioned I am so far using the "Razer Carcharias Professional Gaming Headset" as I read good reviews at the time of purchase (many months ago); what do you think about it? Will it be able to be a good match with a good audio card* until the purchase of the speakers?

* for the sake of brevity, I just wrote (and I will write in any future post) "audio card", but I am just using it as an "umbrella term" for either a PCI card, a USB card, a DAC or what else you can recommend to put between the source material (MP3, movies, games) and the speakers.  :Razz: 

----------

## optiluca

I don't have any experience with the headset at all, so I can't say for sure I am afraid.  Judging by the name, I imagine it's relatively bass-heavy (for more immersive gaming).  From the manufacturer's website I see it has an impedance of 32 ohms so I also imagine it already goes quite loud even with integrated sound.  And amazon tells me they go for about 80 dollars.  Some reviewers there seem to be complaining about a lack of bass, but gamers tend to be bassheads...  :Razz: 

I suspect that even with the headset, an expensive audio card will make little difference.  However, I guess nothing stops you from getting one on amazon and just returning it if turns out to be useless...

----------

## duby2291

I can't help but disagree. I admit fully that my observations are subjective. But I swear up and down that there is an audible difference between the quality of sound between onboard audio and a good quality audio card.... I mean it is a real difference. I suppose some folks are simply less perceptive than others. But I assure you I can hear it.

About your headphones..... Please for the love of god do -not- plug them into your cases front panel audio jacks. They should always be plugged into the rear IO panel. With onboard audio it has to do with a lack of filtering, and also the trace lengths and impedance through the wires leading to the front bezel. With audio cards trace length isnt really an issue, however most cards don't filter the front panel outputs. Some high end cards like the HT Omega I recommended in my first post do filter the front panel outputs, but even in the very best case you still have impedance through the wires leading to the front bezel. I know some here will criticize and say it isnt significant, but I bet that you can physically hear a difference from the front panel outputs and the rear IO panel outputs.

----------

## optiluca

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> do -not- plug them into your cases front panel audio jacks. They should always be plugged into the rear IO panel. With onboard audio it has to do with a lack of filtering, and also the trace lengths and impedance through the wires leading to the front bezel. 

 

I actually agree on this (and indeed I will also attest to the difference being audible).  I think this stuff really varies from pc to pc, maybe that's where the source of disagreement lies...  In general most of my experience is based on recent laptops with HDA: I have had quality issues with AC97 in desktops in the past.

In any case, certainly with HDA I have never seen any of the issues that the OP is suffering with his dedicated sound card (i.e. static), so may I venture the suggestion that he switches to onboard sound to at least solve his immediate issues?  Having to resort to pulseaudio is always a bad sign   :Very Happy: 

----------

## marco.difresco

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> About your headphones..... Please for the love of god do -not- plug them into your cases front panel audio jacks. They should always be plugged into the rear IO panel.

 

No problems here; I always kept them (as any previous headphones/speakers) attached directly to the audio card.  :Razz: 

----------

## marco.difresco

Hi all

first I want to give an update on the matter: few days ago I was noticing that even with SB Audigy 2 ZS, PulseAudio was giving occasional distortions; so I removed PulseAudio, banned the relative flag on make.conf and re-emerged the relative packages to have ALSA only and so far I yet to have any particular problem (even the driver crashes I was having with the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro that leaded to pulses of static sound haven't manifested yet).

Now, while the  SB Audigy 2 ZS isn't giving any explicit issue, I have to admit that the audio quality is somehow "flat" (tested on some songs that with the X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, on those cases where the driver wasn't crashing, sounded more "immersive"), so I am looking forward to the upgrade.

As I mentioned, for the short-middle term I am confined with the headphones, but on the middle-long term I am looking forward to get a 5.1 speakers system.

So far on my list I have:

No hardware mixer

HT Omega Claro 2

HT Omega Striker

With hardware mixer

Aureal Vortex II (limited to 4 channel surround and lack RF-shielded)

External DAC

HRT Music Streamer II+

ODAC

Do you have any other card name to suggest?

Thank you all for the help.  :Smile: 

----------

## PaulBredbury

Looks like the non-USB X-fi might actually work with 5.1 these days - definitely worth further investigation  :Wink: 

----------

## marco.difresco

Hi all,

I ended up buying the HT Omega Claro 2 and it arrived yesterday.

Unfortunately it isn't working as expected as it isn't activated as audio card (it isn't activated at all).

It is installed correctly on the motherboard:

```
# lspci | grep audio

07:01.0 Multimedia audio controller: C-Media Electronics Inc CMI8788 [Oxygen HD Audio]

```

At first (as I boot the PC) there is no audio files (meaning no /proc/asound/cards, /dev/snd/*, etc.).

If I modprobe snd_oxygen (that is the module used by the others HT Omega cards with the same chipset) I get /proc/asound/cards, but it is empty:

```

# cat /proc/asound/cards 

--- no soundcards ---

```

If I try to restart ALSA I get:

```

# /etc/init.d/alsasound restart

 * WARNING: you are stopping a boot service

 * Caching service dependencies ...                                                                                                                                                                                                    [ ok ]

 * Storing ALSA Mixer Levels ...

alsactl: save_state:1580: No soundcards found...

 * Error saving levels.                                                                                                                                                                                                                [ !! ]

 * Restoring Mixer Levels ...

alsactl: unrecognized option '---'

Usage: alsactl <options> command

Available global options:

  -h,--help        this help

  -d,--debug       debug mode

  -v,--version     print version of this program

Available state options:

  -f,--file #      configuration file (default /var/lib/alsa/asound.state)

  -F,--force       try to restore the matching controls as much as possible

                   (default mode)

  -g,--ignore      ignore 'No soundcards found' error

  -P,--pedantic    do not restore mismatching controls (old default)

  -I,--no-init-fallback

                   don't initialize even if restore fails

  -r,--runstate #  save restore and init state to this file (only errors)

                   default settings is 'no file set'

  -R,--remove      remove runstate file at first, otherwise append errors

Available init options:

  -E,--env #=#     set environment variable for init phase (NAME=VALUE)

  -i,--initfile #  main configuation file for init phase (default /usr/share/alsa/init/00main)

Available commands:

  store   <card #> save current driver setup for one or each soundcards

                   to configuration file

  restore <card #> load current driver setup for one or each soundcards

                   from configuration file

  init    <card #> initialize driver to a default state

 * Errors while restoring defaults, ignoring

```

I have no idea where alsactl got that  '---' option as all ALSA configurations files are totally clean (for other reasons I did a clean Gentoo install in these couple of days).

hwinfo gives the following output:

```

# hwinfo --sound

35: PCI 300.1: 0403 Audio device                                

  [Created at pci.319]

  Unique ID: kEn8.XWiFnju8XNC

  Parent ID: 3hqH._4Jk6Hys5IC

  SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:03.0/0000:03:00.1

  SysFS BusID: 0000:03:00.1

  Hardware Class: sound

  Model: "nVidia Audio device"

  Vendor: pci 0x10de "nVidia Corporation"

  Device: pci 0x0e09 

  SubVendor: pci 0x10de "nVidia Corporation"

  SubDevice: pci 0x086a 

  Revision: 0xa1

  Memory Range: 0xfbcfc000-0xfbcfffff (rw,non-prefetchable)

  IRQ: 11 (no events)

  Module Alias: "pci:v000010DEd00000E09sv000010DEsd0000086Abc04sc03i00"

  Driver Info #0:

    Driver Status: snd_hda_intel is not active

    Driver Activation Cmd: "modprobe snd_hda_intel"

  Config Status: cfg=new, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown

  Attached to: #11 (PCI bridge)

37: PCI 701.0: 0401 Multimedia audio controller

  [Created at pci.319]

  Unique ID: fR8M.DkcCoq_kaLB

  Parent ID: 6NW+.mTebKEmhWYA

  SysFS ID: /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1e.0/0000:07:01.0

  SysFS BusID: 0000:07:01.0

  Hardware Class: sound

  Model: "C-Media Electronics CMI8788 [Oxygen HD Audio]"

  Vendor: pci 0x13f6 "C-Media Electronics Inc"

  Device: pci 0x8788 "CMI8788 [Oxygen HD Audio]"

  SubVendor: pci 0x7284 "HT OMEGA Inc."

  SubDevice: pci 0x9787 

  I/O Ports: 0xe800-0xe8ff (rw)

  IRQ: 11 (no events)                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

  Module Alias: "pci:v000013F6d00008788sv00007284sd00009787bc04sc01i00"                                                                                                                                                                      

  Config Status: cfg=new, avail=yes, need=no, active=unknown                                                                                                                                                                                 

  Attached to: #27 (PCI bridge)  

```

If I check the driver I get:

```

# modinfo snd_oxygen

filename:       /lib/modules/3.6.11-gentoo/kernel/sound/pci/oxygen/snd-oxygen.ko

license:        GPL v2

description:    C-Media CMI8788 driver

author:         Clemens Ladisch <clemens@ladisch.de>

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv00007284sd00009781bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv00007284sd00009761bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv00005431sd0000017Abc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv0000415Asd00005431bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000014C3sd00001711bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000014C3sd00001710bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000013F6sd0000FFFFbc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000013F6sd00008782bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv00001043sd00008521bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv00001043sd00008467bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv00001A58sd00000910bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv0000147Asd0000A017bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000013F6sd00008788bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000013F6sd00000010bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000013F6sd00000001bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000010B0sd00000219bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000010B0sd00000218bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000010B0sd00000217bc*sc*i*

alias:          pci:v000013F6d00008788sv000010B0sd00000216bc*sc*i*

depends:        snd-oxygen-lib,snd

intree:         Y

vermagic:       3.6.11-gentoo SMP preempt mod_unload modversions 

parm:           index:card index (array of int)

parm:           id:ID string (array of charp)

parm:           enable:enable card (array of bool)

```

From what I can understand from the above two commands, the card isn't associated to the driver because its Module Alias isn't included on the driver aliases.

Is there anything I can do to make the cards work?

Thanks in advance.

----------

## duby2291

I've never tried loading it as a module. I always built the driver into the kernel. zero config and all that.

I don't know what the problem here is but I'd be willing to bet that it gets nailed down as a problem with udev.

----------

## marco.difresco

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> I've never tried loading it as a module. I always built the driver into the kernel. zero config and all that.

 

Just tried to recompile the kernel with ALSA and the oxygen module as builtin, but without changes.  :Sad: 

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> I don't know what the problem here is but I'd be willing to bet that it gets nailed down as a problem with udev.

 

Ouch!!!   :Crying or Very sad:  I hate having problems with udev: I tried to make custom udev rules in the past to handle other devices, but always without success and in all cases either KDE or something else eventually got updated soon after to auto-mount the device I was interested in (for example the incoming KDE 4.10 will support the mount of smartphones with MTP), so I never had the need to investigate further.

Anyone has any idea on how I can troubleshoot it?

----------

## duby2291

Try rebuilding alsa-lib, alsa-headers, and alsa-utils then try and run alsaconf and see if that helps out any. make sure that etc-update is run. It may have something to do with asoundrc.

EDIT: Also I'd like to see the full output of lsmod. I've been doing some searching and it seems that if soundcore was compiled as a module, but not loaded then this could be the cause of your problem.

EDIT2: After further searching it also seems that this could be an issue if you have the inkernel alsa compiled as modules and you also have alsa-drivers emerged. The solution to that would be to unmerge alsa-drivers  then delete the kernels alsa modules and then rebuild the kernels modules.

----------

## marco.difresco

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> Try rebuilding alsa-lib, alsa-headers, and alsa-utils then try and run alsaconf and see if that helps out any. make sure that etc-update is run. It may have something to do with asoundrc.
> 
> EDIT: Also I'd like to see the full output of lsmod. I've been doing some searching and it seems that if soundcore was compiled as a module, but not loaded then this could be the cause of your problem.

 

It is worth a try; tomorrow evening I will try to re-emerge those packages and get the output of lsmod (can't do right now since I have already temporarily mounted back the Creative Audigy and it is 2:15 AM here in Italy  :Wink:  ).

----------

## duby2291

Thats cool... Hopefully by then someone will read this thread and say "Hey I know what is going on and here is how to fix it!!"

----------

## wcg

When I use a pci soundcard, I set the onboard sound (nvidia from

your hwinfo output) in BIOS to either "auto", which means it is disabled

if there is a soundcard in a pci slot or hooked up to USB, or "disabled",

which simply disables the onboard sound on the motherboard.

This works for me with old Soundblasters, cards using via172x chipsets,

and so on in pci slots. (I always build alsa and the soundcard device drivers

into the kernel rather than as modules, simply because I do not use modules.

All hardware drivers are always loaded. There are no "is the module loaded"

questions to answer when things are not working correctly.)

In other words, is the HDA intel driver for the onboard nvidia sound

interfering with the sound driver for your Claro II? Looking at your

hwinfo output, I see "driver info #0:" for the nvidia onboard sound, but

no "driver info #1:" for the C-media device.

----------

## marco.difresco

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> 
> 
> Try rebuilding alsa-lib, alsa-headers, and alsa-utils then try and run alsaconf and see if that helps out any. make sure that etc-update is run. It may have something to do with asoundrc.
> 
> 

 

Tried and still both alcaconf and /proc/asound/cards reports no cards. I dont' have any custom asoundrc.

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> 
> 
> EDIT: Also I'd like to see the full output of lsmod. I've been doing some searching and it seems that if soundcore was compiled as a module, but not loaded then this could be the cause of your problem.
> 
> 

 

This is the lsmod with the Creative Audigy 2 ZS mounted (and it is working):

http://pastebin.com/CeL3NpYh

This is the lsmod with the  HT Omega Claro 2 soon after the boot (as I had to change other things on the kernel, I set back ALSA as module as it working fine {in terms of module loading} out of the box with both the Audigy and X-Fi):

http://pastebin.com/uAD3nLHJ

This is the lsmod with the  HT Omega Claro 2 after I modprobed snd_oxygen:

http://pastebin.com/qs2DbsXb

It seems that soundcore is loaded fine with the modprobing of snd_oxygen:

 *duby2291 wrote:*   

> 
> 
> EDIT2: After further searching it also seems that this could be an issue if you have the inkernel alsa compiled as modules and you also have alsa-drivers emerged. The solution to that would be to unmerge alsa-drivers  then delete the kernels alsa modules and then rebuild the kernels modules.
> 
> 

 

I do not have the alsa-drivers installed. Just relying on the kernel's ALSA.

 *wcg wrote:*   

> When I use a pci soundcard, I set the onboard sound (nvidia from
> 
> your hwinfo output) in BIOS to either "auto", which means it is disabled
> 
> if there is a soundcard in a pci slot or hooked up to USB, or "disabled",
> ...

 

I don't know why, but that Nvidia sound card is something related to the video card. The real onboard card is a "Realtek ALC889 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC" and it is already disabled on the BIOS. Plus I blacklisted both snd_usb_audio (related to the webcam) and snd_hda_intel. As a matter of fact when I have the Audigy installed (that uses the PCI slot too) it is the only audio card active. Therefore I don't thing that the nvidia audio is causing any conflicts.

----------

## wcg

Well, the real onboard sound is actually both, sound support in the chipset *and*

the realtek codec, but that is a minor point. If you have onboard sound disabled

in BIOS and hda intel disabled in the kernel .config, then it should not interfere.

(I was forgetting that your previous sound system was also a pci soundcard.)

If the hdmi sound support on your video card can interfere with

the Claro II and not with the Soundblasters, that would be a surprise.

edit:

If you have the time, try building a test kernel with all of the sound

stuff for alsa and the C-media driver only (no other sound drivers)

built into the kernel instead of as modules. Boot it, and look at

dmesg after the kernel boots for messages related to sound. It

may tell you something that module loading does not. (Test to

see if it works, of course, too.)

----------

## duby2291

All of the modules seem to be loaded fine. I don't know that anything is missing. What does your .config for the alsa section look like?

Just for reference this is how mine looks...

```
CONFIG_SOUND=y

CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE=y

# CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE_PRECLAIM is not set

CONFIG_SND=y

CONFIG_SND_TIMER=y

CONFIG_SND_PCM=y

CONFIG_SND_HWDEP=y

CONFIG_SND_RAWMIDI=y

CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER=y

# CONFIG_SND_SEQ_DUMMY is not set

CONFIG_SND_OSSEMUL=y

CONFIG_SND_MIXER_OSS=y

CONFIG_SND_PCM_OSS=y

CONFIG_SND_PCM_OSS_PLUGINS=y

CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER_OSS=y

CONFIG_SND_HRTIMER=y

CONFIG_SND_SEQ_HRTIMER_DEFAULT=y

CONFIG_SND_DYNAMIC_MINORS=y

CONFIG_SND_SUPPORT_OLD_API=y

# CONFIG_SND_VERBOSE_PROCFS is not set

# CONFIG_SND_VERBOSE_PRINTK is not set

# CONFIG_SND_DEBUG is not set

CONFIG_SND_VMASTER=y

CONFIG_SND_KCTL_JACK=y

CONFIG_SND_DMA_SGBUF=y

CONFIG_SND_RAWMIDI_SEQ=y

CONFIG_SND_OPL3_LIB_SEQ=y

# CONFIG_SND_OPL4_LIB_SEQ is not set

# CONFIG_SND_SBAWE_SEQ is not set

# CONFIG_SND_EMU10K1_SEQ is not set

CONFIG_SND_MPU401_UART=y

CONFIG_SND_OPL3_LIB=y

# CONFIG_SND_DRIVERS is not set

CONFIG_SND_PCI=y

# CONFIG_SND_AD1889 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ALS300 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ALS4000 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ALI5451 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ASIHPI is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ATIIXP is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ATIIXP_MODEM is not set

# CONFIG_SND_AU8810 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_AU8820 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_AU8830 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_AW2 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_AZT3328 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_BT87X is not set

# CONFIG_SND_CA0106 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_CMIPCI is not set

CONFIG_SND_OXYGEN=y

# CONFIG_SND_CS4281 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_CS46XX is not set

# CONFIG_SND_CS5530 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_CS5535AUDIO is not set

# CONFIG_SND_CTXFI is not set

# CONFIG_SND_DARLA20 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_GINA20 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_LAYLA20 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_DARLA24 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_GINA24 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_LAYLA24 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_MONA is not set

# CONFIG_SND_MIA is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ECHO3G is not set

# CONFIG_SND_INDIGO is not set

# CONFIG_SND_INDIGOIO is not set

# CONFIG_SND_INDIGODJ is not set

# CONFIG_SND_INDIGOIOX is not set

# CONFIG_SND_INDIGODJX is not set

# CONFIG_SND_EMU10K1 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_EMU10K1X is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ENS1370 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ENS1371 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ES1938 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ES1968 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_FM801 is not set

CONFIG_SND_HDA_INTEL=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_PREALLOC_SIZE=64

CONFIG_SND_HDA_HWDEP=y

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_RECONFIG is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_INPUT_JACK is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_PATCH_LOADER is not set

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_REALTEK=y

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_ANALOG is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_SIGMATEL is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_VIA is not set

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_HDMI=y

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CIRRUS is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CONEXANT is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CA0110 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CA0132 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CMEDIA is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_SI3054 is not set

CONFIG_SND_HDA_GENERIC=y

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDSP is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDSPM is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ICE1712 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ICE1724 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_INTEL8X0 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_INTEL8X0M is not set

# CONFIG_SND_KORG1212 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_LOLA is not set

# CONFIG_SND_LX6464ES is not set

# CONFIG_SND_MAESTRO3 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_MIXART is not set

# CONFIG_SND_NM256 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_PCXHR is not set

# CONFIG_SND_RIPTIDE is not set

# CONFIG_SND_RME32 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_RME96 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_RME9652 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_SONICVIBES is not set

# CONFIG_SND_TRIDENT is not set

# CONFIG_SND_VIA82XX is not set

# CONFIG_SND_VIA82XX_MODEM is not set

# CONFIG_SND_VIRTUOSO is not set

# CONFIG_SND_VX222 is not set

# CONFIG_SND_YMFPCI is not set

# CONFIG_SND_USB is not set

# CONFIG_SND_SOC is not set

# CONFIG_SOUND_PRIME is not set
```

----------

## marco.difresco

Here is mine:

```
CONFIG_SOUND=m

CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE=y

CONFIG_SOUND_OSS_CORE_PRECLAIM=y

CONFIG_SND=m

CONFIG_SND_TIMER=m

CONFIG_SND_PCM=m

CONFIG_SND_HWDEP=m

CONFIG_SND_RAWMIDI=m

CONFIG_SND_JACK=y

CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER=m

# CONFIG_SND_SEQ_DUMMY is not set

CONFIG_SND_OSSEMUL=y

CONFIG_SND_MIXER_OSS=m

CONFIG_SND_PCM_OSS=m

CONFIG_SND_PCM_OSS_PLUGINS=y

CONFIG_SND_SEQUENCER_OSS=y

CONFIG_SND_HRTIMER=m

CONFIG_SND_SEQ_HRTIMER_DEFAULT=y

CONFIG_SND_DYNAMIC_MINORS=y

CONFIG_SND_SUPPORT_OLD_API=y

# CONFIG_SND_VERBOSE_PROCFS is not set

# CONFIG_SND_VERBOSE_PRINTK is not set

# CONFIG_SND_DEBUG is not set

CONFIG_SND_VMASTER=y

CONFIG_SND_KCTL_JACK=y

CONFIG_SND_DMA_SGBUF=y

CONFIG_SND_RAWMIDI_SEQ=m

CONFIG_SND_OPL3_LIB_SEQ=m

# CONFIG_SND_OPL4_LIB_SEQ is not set

# CONFIG_SND_SBAWE_SEQ is not set

CONFIG_SND_EMU10K1_SEQ=m

CONFIG_SND_MPU401_UART=m

CONFIG_SND_OPL3_LIB=m

CONFIG_SND_VX_LIB=m

CONFIG_SND_AC97_CODEC=m

CONFIG_SND_DRIVERS=y

# CONFIG_SND_PCSP is not set

# CONFIG_SND_DUMMY is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ALOOP is not set

# CONFIG_SND_VIRMIDI is not set

# CONFIG_SND_MTPAV is not set

CONFIG_SND_MTS64=m

# CONFIG_SND_SERIAL_U16550 is not set

CONFIG_SND_MPU401=m

CONFIG_SND_PORTMAN2X4=m

# CONFIG_SND_AC97_POWER_SAVE is not set

CONFIG_SND_SB_COMMON=m

CONFIG_SND_SB16_DSP=m

CONFIG_SND_TEA575X=m

CONFIG_SND_PCI=y

CONFIG_SND_AD1889=m

CONFIG_SND_ALS300=m

CONFIG_SND_ALS4000=m

CONFIG_SND_ALI5451=m

# CONFIG_SND_ASIHPI is not set

CONFIG_SND_ATIIXP=m

CONFIG_SND_ATIIXP_MODEM=m

CONFIG_SND_AU8810=m

CONFIG_SND_AU8820=m

CONFIG_SND_AU8830=m

# CONFIG_SND_AW2 is not set

CONFIG_SND_AZT3328=m

CONFIG_SND_BT87X=m

# CONFIG_SND_BT87X_OVERCLOCK is not set

CONFIG_SND_CA0106=m

CONFIG_SND_CMIPCI=m

CONFIG_SND_OXYGEN_LIB=m

CONFIG_SND_OXYGEN=m

CONFIG_SND_CS4281=m

CONFIG_SND_CS46XX=m

CONFIG_SND_CS46XX_NEW_DSP=y

CONFIG_SND_CS5530=m

# CONFIG_SND_CS5535AUDIO is not set

CONFIG_SND_CTXFI=m

CONFIG_SND_DARLA20=m

CONFIG_SND_GINA20=m

CONFIG_SND_LAYLA20=m

CONFIG_SND_DARLA24=m

CONFIG_SND_GINA24=m

CONFIG_SND_LAYLA24=m

CONFIG_SND_MONA=m

CONFIG_SND_MIA=m

CONFIG_SND_ECHO3G=m

CONFIG_SND_INDIGO=m

CONFIG_SND_INDIGOIO=m

CONFIG_SND_INDIGODJ=m

# CONFIG_SND_INDIGOIOX is not set

# CONFIG_SND_INDIGODJX is not set

CONFIG_SND_EMU10K1=m

CONFIG_SND_EMU10K1X=m

CONFIG_SND_ENS1370=m

CONFIG_SND_ENS1371=m

CONFIG_SND_ES1938=m

CONFIG_SND_ES1968=m

# CONFIG_SND_ES1968_INPUT is not set

# CONFIG_SND_ES1968_RADIO is not set

CONFIG_SND_FM801=m

# CONFIG_SND_FM801_TEA575X_BOOL is not set

CONFIG_SND_HDA_INTEL=m

CONFIG_SND_HDA_PREALLOC_SIZE=64

CONFIG_SND_HDA_HWDEP=y

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_RECONFIG is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_INPUT_BEEP is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_INPUT_JACK is not set

# CONFIG_SND_HDA_PATCH_LOADER is not set

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_REALTEK=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_ANALOG=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_SIGMATEL=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_VIA=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_HDMI=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CIRRUS=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CONEXANT=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CA0110=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CA0132=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_CMEDIA=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_CODEC_SI3054=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_GENERIC=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE=y

CONFIG_SND_HDA_POWER_SAVE_DEFAULT=0

CONFIG_SND_HDSP=m

CONFIG_SND_HDSPM=m

CONFIG_SND_ICE1712=m

CONFIG_SND_ICE1724=m

CONFIG_SND_INTEL8X0=m

CONFIG_SND_INTEL8X0M=m

CONFIG_SND_KORG1212=m

# CONFIG_SND_LOLA is not set

# CONFIG_SND_LX6464ES is not set

CONFIG_SND_MAESTRO3=m

# CONFIG_SND_MAESTRO3_INPUT is not set

CONFIG_SND_MIXART=m

CONFIG_SND_NM256=m

CONFIG_SND_PCXHR=m

CONFIG_SND_RIPTIDE=m

CONFIG_SND_RME32=m

CONFIG_SND_RME96=m

CONFIG_SND_RME9652=m

CONFIG_SND_SONICVIBES=m

CONFIG_SND_TRIDENT=m

CONFIG_SND_VIA82XX=m

CONFIG_SND_VIA82XX_MODEM=m

# CONFIG_SND_VIRTUOSO is not set

CONFIG_SND_VX222=m

CONFIG_SND_YMFPCI=m

CONFIG_SND_USB=y

CONFIG_SND_USB_AUDIO=m

# CONFIG_SND_USB_UA101 is not set

CONFIG_SND_USB_USX2Y=m

CONFIG_SND_USB_CAIAQ=m

CONFIG_SND_USB_CAIAQ_INPUT=y

# CONFIG_SND_USB_US122L is not set

# CONFIG_SND_USB_6FIRE is not set

# CONFIG_SND_PCMCIA is not set

CONFIG_SND_SOC=m

CONFIG_SND_SOC_I2C_AND_SPI=m

# CONFIG_SND_SOC_ALL_CODECS is not set

# CONFIG_SND_SIMPLE_CARD is not set

# CONFIG_SOUND_PRIME is not set

CONFIG_AC97_BUS=m
```

----------

## wcg

This article has an operating system independent explanation

of on-board sound and the relationship between the "sound card"

in the south bridge of the chipset and the codec:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/28

The article uses a motherboard with an Intel ICH south bridge

for an example, but nvidia and amd chipsets with onboard sound

work the same way, and so do the Intel chipsets with a PCH

south bridge. (PCH just gets rid of the north bridge by moving

some of its functions into the cpu and the rest into the southbridge,

but sound support is still in the southbridge.)

This is the kind of sound hardware that is driven by the HDA Intel

drivers mentioned in make menuconfig. HDMI is an add-on not

covered in the article, but I see that the kernel config option for it

is in the HDA Intel section. If you are not going to use the onboard

sound, you can disable HDA Intel in make menuconfig. If nothing else,

this should remove noise from your alsa-info output so you have

a better chance of figuring out what the problem is.

----------

