# remove pin 20 on old ide(?) hot swap drive tray

## broschi

So I wanted to buy a coat at ValueVillage and I ended up with a swappable drive tray and an a 3c590 NIC as well. Even at 10$ the lot I'd like at least ONE of them to work.  :Wink: 

I'm pretty sure it's an ide drive cause I can hook up one properly in the tray. The tray is quit old, it's a real 40 pinners, as in it still has pin 20 which is supposed to be the "key" one (well it's absence is the key..). I googled around but found no definite answer as to whether it's okay to remove pin 20 on a standard ide drive (and by drive I mean tray). The only other thing I know for sure about this tray is that it's made in Taiwan. Otherwise there's no indication of anything at all (no brand, model, make, s/n, whatever).

So, can I just tear it off?

----------

## Simba7

I don't see why you couldn't just tear it off.. It's not being used..

----------

## pteppic

Yeah, rip it off, old IDE has pin 20, newer ATA doesn't, see here and here, it's not used on either. Very useful site.

----------

## star882

Yes, it can be removed. But double check to make sure it is the right one.

----------

## broschi

Done. But how does it shows up on the system? There was a time when I used to just hot swap drives w/o any kind of equipment, just hooking 'em up and it would show on dmesg. Then fdisk or mount it. With all the modern hotpluggin/hal/etc software it doesn't work so I guess that it's just broken... Better luck next time I guess.

----------

## Cyker

I'm 99% sure you can't hot-swap IDE (Well, with the exception of some exotic RAID+Backplane combo).

Heck, SATA hotswapping isn't even very well supported; I've only ever seen it done reliably with SCSI!

If the tray has no real electronics on board, it means that it's just for easy removal of the disk - It is a very common thing on HD-based security camera recorders.

You still have to turn the machine OFF, as you would when normally removing a HD.

I'm almost certain that attempting to hotswap with it will probably blow something up.

----------

## Simba7

What about flushing the cache, unmounting the hard drive, then doing an ATA Spindown?

That *might* work, but then you have to redetect the drive.

----------

## Monkeh

 *Cyker wrote:*   

> Heck, SATA hotswapping isn't even very well supported; I've only ever seen it done reliably with SCSI!

 

Only SCSI stuff I have doesn't do hotswapping very well. My SATA controllers do a good job of it however.

----------

## drescherjm

 *Quote:*   

> My SATA controllers do a good job of it however.

 

I have used SATA hot swap 4 years ago on server class sata controllers (non raid). On my desktops it has been harder but its has been over a 75% success rate for me.

----------

## broschi

 *Cyker wrote:*   

> I'm 99% sure you can't hot-swap IDE (Well, with the exception of some exotic RAID+Backplane combo).
> 
> ...
> 
> If the tray has no real electronics on board, it means that it's just for easy removal of the disk - It is a very common thing on HD-based security camera recorders.
> ...

 

That's right, you can't hotswap ide drives but I did it anyway, sometimes people just get away with things they shoudn't do. Then I wonder why I had bad blocks on those drives.  :Wink:  I value my data so I don't do those kind of things anymore. Thinking of it, it's quit surprising that it's a 2.2 kernel I was running back then.

The tray has a lock with 2 wires running in it so I guess I just need to short it somehow. I'll try that.

----------

## broschi

Well that was the lock. I just pushed the lever with a screwdriver and the drive started to spin. I'm quit disappointed I had to reboot thought. At least it works, thanks all!

----------

## Cyker

 *Simba7 wrote:*   

> What about flushing the cache, unmounting the hard drive, then doing an ATA Spindown?
> 
> That *might* work, but then you have to redetect the drive.

 

IIRC, with IDE, you need to reset the whole controller once you plug the drive back in to force a drive redetection. Most systems will barf if you try and do that, which is why it usually only works on more exotic RAID controllers.

I don't think I've ever seen it work on the basic motherboard controllers...

Tangent: For you people with the successful SATA hotplugging, is this with eSATA or normal SATA?

Also, what cards/chipsets and backplanes were you using?

I'm just curious  :Smile: 

I've tried it with a Dell PERC/6 (Works in Windows but not Linux) and some unknown card with an LSI Logic chip on it (Just didn't work  :Wink: ).

TBH I'm not sure whether it's just because I'm not doing/haven't installed something I should be, or whether the hardware just isn't capable...

----------

## drescherjm

Normal sata. 

Server Card: Promise sx8 (8 channel sata 1 non raid card)

Cheap Desktop card: SYBA SD-SATA-4P (4 port sata 1 card $19US) uses SIL3114 chip

I had problems with sata hotswap on nVidia nforce 4 boards (asus m2n deluxe).

SATA hot swap has also worked for other combinations but I cant remember at the moment..

----------

## Monkeh

 *Cyker wrote:*   

> Tangent: For you people with the successful SATA hotplugging, is this with eSATA or normal SATA?
> 
> Also, what cards/chipsets and backplanes were you using?
> 
> I'm just curious 

 

Both. Intel ICH9R and an nVidia nForce 4. No backplanes (simple bay on the ICH9R, enclosure and cable on the NF4).

----------

