# [SOLVED]Screw you, mouse (formerly Screw you, udev)

## djpenguin

This is, quite possibly, the most irritating problem I have ever had.

Once or twice a day, my system seems to 'lose' the mouse.  The cursor is still there on the desktop, but the mouse doesn't function until I restart X.  There are no error messages displayed on the console runnung X, which leads me to believe that this problem is udev's fault.

I never had this happen running the exact same WM and X configuration under a 2004.3 install with devfs, but after doing a reinstall with 2005.0, the problem seems to get worse and worse as time goes by.

I once did a 2004.3 install with udev, and promptly got rid of it because it sucked so bad, it couldn't stop losing devices.  When I saw it was a default in 2005.0, I cringed, but figured I would give it a try anyway, see if things had improved.

Now it is clear that it has not improved at all, I want to go back to using devfs.  Can I simply enable the proper entries in the kernel conf, reboot with the new kernel, then unmerge udev and be done with it?  Or would the process be more involved?

Specs:

2.6.11-gentoo-r5

xorg 6.8.2-r1

xfce4-4.2.0

udev-056

Incidentally, gentoo devs, if gentoo is truly all about choice, please include the choice for us NOT to install the steaming pile of crap that is udev.  Devfs actually works, which is a lot more than I can say for udev.Last edited by djpenguin on Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:55 am; edited 1 time in total

----------

## jrudy66606

I had a problem like this once with one of my computers.  It ended up being the motherboard.  I replaced the motherboard and problem fixed.

----------

## dashnu

Hi dj I think you can just unmerge udev and add the kernel stuff and go I could be wrong though...

aka init.

btw.. udev works for me what kind of mouse do you have ? What kind of chop shop you running over there  :Very Happy:   :Very Happy:   :Very Happy: 

----------

## djpenguin

Just some cheap-o logitech optical three-button deal, nothing fancy.

I would be totally willing to blame this on the motherboard, but if that was the case, then why does it take nothing but restarting X to fix?  If it was hardware, shouldn't the problem persist intermittently, regardless of software fixes?

Long time no see init, the result of some very fun HDD issues.  I'm gonna try my theory and see if my computer explodes.

----------

## mazirian

If udev sucked that bad, the forums would be flooded with comments about mice blowing up everywhere.  I really doubt it's udev, although it could possibly be its configuration.  There's plenty of other stuff it could be.  Is this a usb mouse?  Try swtiching usb ports.  I had a port go bad and experianced similar problems with my keyboard once.

--AN ASIDE --

Hey, Dashnu! Fellow Mainer!

----------

## djpenguin

Actually, there's a post further up the page titled 'I hate udev', so I am not the only one.

I'll try swapping USB ports, and I really hope that works.

For those of you who are interested, enabling devfs support in-kernel and then removing udev did not exactly work.  I only got halfway through boot, then /dev/hda2 (/ partition) couldn't be found.

Not only that, but I managed to break the living hell out of ALSA while I was at it...check out the output of dmesg | grep snd

```
snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_hw_param_value_min

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_build_linear_format

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_hw_param_mask

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_kmalloc_strdup

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_format_signed

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_hw_constraints_complete

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_hw_refine

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_kernel_playback_ioctl

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_create_card_entry

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_format_big_endian

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_notify

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_release_substream

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_lib_write

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_card_file_remove

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_format_set_silence

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_unregister

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_get_line

snd_pcm_oss: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_format_width

snd: Unknown symbol devfs_mk_dir

snd: Unknown symbol devfs_mk_cdev

snd: Unknown symbol devfs_remove

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_register

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_free_entry

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_get_str

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_unregister_oss_device

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_ctl_find_id

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_verbose_printk

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_register_oss_device

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_card_file_add

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_mixer_oss_notify_callback

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_iprintf

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_cards

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_ctl_notify

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_oss_info_register

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_kmalloc_strdup

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_create_card_entry

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_card_file_remove

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_unregister

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_ctl_find_numid

snd_mixer_oss: Unknown symbol snd_info_get_line

snd: Unknown symbol devfs_mk_dir

snd: Unknown symbol devfs_mk_cdev

snd: Unknown symbol devfs_remove

snd_seq_device: Unknown symbol snd_info_register

snd_seq_device: Unknown symbol snd_info_create_module_entry

snd_seq_device: Unknown symbol snd_info_free_entry

snd_seq_device: Unknown symbol snd_seq_root

snd_seq_device: Unknown symbol snd_verbose_printk

snd_seq_device: Unknown symbol snd_iprintf

snd_seq_device: Unknown symbol snd_device_new

snd_seq_device: Unknown symbol snd_info_unregister

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_info_register

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_info_create_module_entry

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_info_free_entry

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_verbose_printk

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_iprintf

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_ecards_limit

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_oss_info_register

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_unregister_device

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_device_new

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_kmalloc_strdup

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_info_unregister

snd_timer: Unknown symbol snd_register_device

snd_seq: Unknown symbol snd_timer_stop

>snd_pcm: Unknown symbol snd_power_wait

snd_pcm: Unknown symbol snd_device_free

snd_pcm: Unknown symbol snd_card_file_remove

snd_pcm: Unknown symbol snd_info_unregister

snd_pcm: Unknown symbol snd_device_register

snd_pcm: Unknown symbol snd_register_device

snd_pcm: Unknown symbol snd_info_get_line

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_info_register

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_ctl_add

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_info_free_entry

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_interval_refine

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_ctl_find_id

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_verbose_printk

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_ctl_new1

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_ctl_remove_id

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_component_add

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_pcm_hw_rule_add

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_iprintf

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_device_new

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_info_create_card_entry

snd_ac97_codec: Unknown symbol snd_info_unregister

```

Fun

----------

## mazirian

I may be totally off base, but I thought it (udev) was a dependancy of the 2.6 kernels.  I know how you feel, it is frustrating when something new replaces something old that worked perfectly well.  But on the other hand, I am enjoying a lot stuff that udev has made possible, like hal/dbus/{gnome-volume-manager, ivman} and better hotplugging.  If you want to test whether it's a hardware issue that recently developed, you might try booting into a livecd of some kind and seeing if you get the same problem.

----------

## Griswold

udev is not required...  Just put devfs (including loading on-boot) into the kernel config and recompile/install your kernel.  Then emerge -C udev, and you should be good to go.

PS.  Devfs is depreciated (by the kernel devs, not gentoo) and so there wont be many updates to it, if any.  You should really use udev, but its up to you and yes, devfs works with 2.6.x kernels, however it may not in the future.

This is strait from the 2.6.12-rc6 config, so any kernels up to the current kernel from kernel.org will support devfs!!

      [*] /dev file system support (OBSOLETE)

      [*]   Automatically mount at boot

^^ Those are the options

----------

## Griswold

Opps... forgot to read your last post all the way.

Make sure the  [*] Automatically mount at boot   is enabled.

Next, re-emerge alsa (w/ its deps).

Lastly, remember, the kernel people stopped developing devfs a LONG time ago, so if something doesnt work, I guess I cant help much.  Try using a 2.4 kernel and seeing if that fixes some of your problems.  Once the system boots up, ls /dev, it should spam a lot of files, if it only has a few, thats a bad thing.  Let us know.  You may try to emerge some of the older sysvinit versions.  eg. emerge -D =sys-apps/sysvinit-2.85-r1

----------

## djpenguin

Well, I've gotten the audio working again with kernel 2.6.11-gentoo-r9, and I moved the mouse to a different USB port, so hopefully that will chase this problem away.

----------

## djpenguin

AAARRRGGGHHH!

It sure didn't take long for that mouse problem to repeat itself....

Any other ideas about how to fix this?

----------

## dashnu

OT - Yes sir anotha Mainer. Good to talk to ya!

Dj, did you try what Griswold said.. that should give you back devfs. Or is that what you did and your still having issues?

----------

## Headrush

It is highly unlikely that udev is causing the problems you are having. 

All udev does is create device nodes. If X starts up and the mouse works the node must be present. Once it stops, change to a console and see if your /dev node for your mouse is still there. If so, which I predict, it's not udev.

Is this mouse wireless? Can you post the exact model and your "InputDevice" section of your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file?

I think a lot of people blame udev, when it is a combination of the functionality of udev, hotplug, and pam, and the misconfiguration of it.

Sure udev, has gone through changes, such as the removal of permissions files, which have caused hiccups, but once configured properly I have found it to top notch and working flawlessly on 7 different machines, all with very different hardware.

----------

## djpenguin

I know, I just like to blame things on udev...you gotta have a scpaegoat, and it's my current favorite.

init:  I tried the method listed above (compiling devfs support into kernel, reboot, unmerge udev) and it most certainly does NOT work...during the boot process, it can't find /dev/hda2, which is the / partition, then craps out into single user mode.

next time the mouse dies (It's happened already once today) I will go check out the /dev/input directory and see if the device still exists.  Actually, the reason that I suspected udev from the start is that a while ago it actually did lose a device node, /dev/input/mouse1 ceased to exist and I had to edit the xorg.conf to use /dev/input/mouse2.  A short while later, the problem mysteriously corrected itself.

Here's the Input Device section of xorg.conf:

```
# Identifier and driver

    Identifier  "Mouse1"

    Driver      "mouse"

    Option "Protocol"    "Auto"

    Option "Device"      "/dev/input/mouse1"

    Option "Buttons"     "5"

    Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"

# Mouse-speed setting for PS/2 mouse.

#    Option "Resolution"        "256"

# When using XQUEUE, comment out the above two lines, and uncomment

# the following line.

#    Option "Protocol"  "Xqueue"

# Baudrate and SampleRate are only for some Logitech mice. In

# almost every case these lines should be omitted.

#    Option "BaudRate"  "9600"

#    Option "SampleRate"        "150"

# Emulate3Buttons is an option for 2-button Microsoft mice

# Emulate3Timeout is the timeout in milliseconds (default is 50ms)

#    Option "Emulate3Buttons"

#    Option "Emulate3Timeout"    "50"

# ChordMiddle is an option for some 3-button Logitech mice

#    Option "ChordMiddle"

EndSection

```

And hey, since my mouse JUST decided to freak out again, I can tell you that:

/dev/input/mouse0-3 are all there

Flipping back and forth from console to WM will bring the mouse back to life for 15-20 seconds (had to do that to copy the xorg.conf stuff)

this is officially the most irrtitating linux problem I have ever had

----------

## djpenguin

It's just getting worse...it's happened three times in the past hour and a half  :Evil or Very Mad: 

I really hope it's not the mobo, I definitely do not have the money to buy a new one...

----------

## Jake

Try configuring the mouse section of xorg.conf as follows:

```
    Identifier  "Mouse1"

    Driver      "mouse"

    Option "Protocol"    "ExplorerPS/2"

    Option "Device"      "/dev/input/mice"

    Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
```

/dev/input/mouse[0-9] all get magically combined by 2.6 kernels as "/dev/input/mice", which uses the Explorer PS/2 protocol.

----------

## dtor

 *djpenguin wrote:*   

> It's just getting worse...it's happened three times in the past hour and a half 
> 
> I really hope it's not the mobo, I definitely do not have the money to buy a new one...

 

It may be your mouse cable breaking contact. Well, as Jake said, use /dev/input/mice instead of /dev/input/mouseX and you should be set.

----------

## djpenguin

Thanks much for the tips guys, I have made that small change and restarted X, so we shall see if the problem persists.

Stay tuned

----------

## djpenguin

Damnit, it happened again...that sure didn't take long.

I am seriously doubting that it is a hardware issue though, because flipping to a console and then back to X restores the mouse function almost every time.  Just to test, I disconnected the USB extender cable from the mouse and plugged it directly into the computer, and the problem still occurs.

I am extremely confused...

----------

## djpenguin

I tried a different WM (openbox) to see if the problem was related to XFCE4

Unfortunately, it isn't, as I had the problem recur within minutes of launching openbox.

If you can help me fix this, I'll gladly buy you a beer.

----------

## Headrush

Well, don't boot into a X environment.

Make sure you have gpm installed and running and mess around with mouse support in console apps.

If the problem still happens we can eliminate the X server as the problem.

----------

## lavacano

i've found unknown symbol errors like that sometimes reside in a LDFLAGS=...-Wl,--as-needed...

----------

## infirit

For peple wanting to switch back to devfs do the following.

First: enable devfs in your kernel but leave the mount as boot off

Second: make sure that in /etc/conf.d/rc the option RC_DEVICES is set to auto.

Third: change your kernel parameter in your bootloader to includegentoo=noudev

or

gentoo=nodevfsThese explain themselves i think  :Wink: 

----------

## djpenguin

Thanks!  Now I know how to do that, if it becomes necessary.

I've switched the mouse out with a little bitty wireless one that came with my wife's laptop (just found it in a drawer)  Soon I'll know if the mouse itself is the issue.

I would love to try the mouse in some console apps, but being a dumbass, I don't know of any.

If you could tell me a few, I'll gladly try that out.

----------

## suck_ma_penguin

```
emerge links2
```

----------

## djpenguin

Well, judging by the fact that I haven't seen this problem once since I switched mice, I guess the mouse was the culprit.

Incidentally, this little wireless mouse (ASUS OPM-32) works far better under Linux than it does under Windows...

----------

