# How to dump webapp-config?

## Nicolinux

Hi,

I would like to not be forced to use webapp-config when I emerge phpmyadmin. I don't like the way webapp-config works. I know that I could inject webapp-config before installing phpmyadmin but this produces the following error:

```

* vhosts USE flag not set - auto-installing using webapp-config

 * This is an installation

 * phpmyadmin-2.5.7_p1 is not installed - using install mode

 * Running /usr/sbin/webapp-config -I -h localhost -u root -d /phpmyadmin phpmyadmin 2.5.7_p1

/usr/sbin/ebuild.sh: line 483: /usr/sbin/webapp-config: No such file or directory

```

Thanks for your help

Stefan

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## Carlo

 *Nicolinux wrote:*   

> I would like to not be forced to use webapp-config when I emerge phpmyadmin. I don't like the way webapp-config works.

 

No chance. All web related packages will be ported to it.

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## Nicolinux

The freedom of choices...

However I guess I am stuck with installing those thing on my own, without portage.

Thanks anyway.

Stefan

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## tecknojunky

 *Carlo wrote:*   

>  *Nicolinux wrote:*   I would like to not be forced to use webapp-config when I emerge phpmyadmin. I don't like the way webapp-config works. 
> 
> No chance. All web related packages will be ported to it.

 This is egemony, dictatorship, ...  :Evil or Very Mad: 

I hate it too.  The furthest I would agree with the glep is for ebuilds to dump them in some common repository (/usr/share/webapps is ok).  For the rest, it's food for cat.

Any other pills we have to swallow? (à la Microsoft way)

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## Carlo

Well, no reason to show us your most scary face.  :Razz:  Read  GLEP 11, man webapp-config and whatelse you may find, join the gentoo-web-user mailing list and /flame/ there. The chance to get heard is much higher this way.

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## tecknojunky

 *Carlo wrote:*   

> Well, no reason to show us your most scary face.  

 You meant to say, my hugly face  :Wink: 

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## frilled

Well. I have to admin that webapp-config is the first "feature" of Gentoo that I can really, utterly and with extreme violence hate.

Man. That thing cost me an hour of my life plus tweo weeks I will die sooner because of additional strain from heavy stress   :Evil or Very Mad: 

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## tecknojunky

Post your rant here.  :Twisted Evil: 

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## westi

What is it that you all particulaly hate about webapp-config?

With use=-vhosts it should make no difference to your usage of webapps installed via portage.

Be specific with you problems - post bugs or join gentoo-web-user and vent your anger  :Wink: 

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## frilled

 *westi wrote:*   

> What is it that you all particulaly hate about webapp-config?
> 
> With use=-vhosts it should make no difference to your usage of webapps installed via portage.
> 
> Be specific with you problems - post bugs or join gentoo-web-user and vent your anger 

 

Note the use of "should"   :Twisted Evil: 

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## westi

 *wgi wrote:*   

>  *westi wrote:*   What is it that you all particulaly hate about webapp-config?
> 
> With use=-vhosts it should make no difference to your usage of webapps installed via portage.
> 
> Be specific with you problems - post bugs or join gentoo-web-user and vent your anger  
> ...

 

With use=-vhosts (The default btw) you should not need to interact directly with webapp-config at all afaiu.

What specific problems do you have with webapp-config?  Please share them so that the dev's can address them rather than just saying you think it is is rubbish!!  :Twisted Evil: 

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## cyberpatrol

Because Carlo has closed my own thread I just post it here again.

After searching and reading a while in the forum and in this thread I found that it should be enough to set the use flag "-vhost" to get rid of this webapp-config. But unfortunatly it's not true. On the contrary webapp-config's behaviour is more annoying than without use flag "-vhost". 

And I didn't find a useful and readable and understandable documentation for this webapp-config. This GLEP 11 thing is only useful for developers and manpages - also the webapp-config manpage - are just a documentation about the syntax. They don't explain how a program works generally. 

As I have written in another thread I don't want to have webapps like htdig, phpsysinfo and phpmyadmin installed more than once. And I want to know how and where to configure those webapps and I don't have time to read and think about the meaning of the webapp-config manpage. 

And it takes much more time to learn such a useless webapp-config than just copying the (only once) installed webapps into different directories if someone needs it. 

Maybe there could be some cases in which webapp-config could be useful but for me and for many other people as it can be read in the forum it's annoying. So this webapp-config MUST become OPTIONAL! Maybe it could be done with a new useflag. But the default setting of this use flag should be turned off. 

So how do I get rid of webapp-config?

@Carlo:

This one question is answered but not with an acceptable answer.  :Wink: 

And, please, read my hole posting. Then you will find some more problems I and some more people have with webapp-config.

BTW, if the developers create such a tool and compel the people using it they first should write a reasonable documentation which explains in details what it is for, how it works and how it is used.

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## Carlo

 *cyberpatrol wrote:*   

> Because Carlo has closed my own thread I just post it here again.

 

I don't have the right to close. I reported it as a dupe, because it does not make sense to clutter the db with multiple threads on the same topic. 

 *cyberpatrol wrote:*   

> and manpages - also the webapp-config manpage - are just a documentation about the syntax. They don't explain how a program works generally.

 

No. The man page includes all necessary information.

 *cyberpatrol wrote:*   

> This one question is answered but not with an acceptable answer. 

 

You won't get another one.

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## cyberpatrol

 *Carlo wrote:*   

> I don't have the right to close. I reported it as a dupe, because it does not make sense to clutter the db with multiple threads on the same topic.

 

Because of this I couldn't answer there. 

 *Carlo wrote:*   

> No. The man page includes all necessary information.

 

No they don't. They don't explain exactly how it works. There's e.g. not explained what the many empty directories in /usr/share/webapp like conf, hook etc. are for. And it is not explained why it creates e.g. for phpmyadmin a config file different from the original and why the original config file is there only as a copy with the extension .orig.

There has to be a really detailed documentation in the Gentoo Handbook particularly because it unfortunately became such an elementary tool as portage.

Another problem with webapp-config: It's far too unflexible.

As far as I've seen there's only one variable with which the vhost directory can be set.

I personally have three of these directories - one for my local webapps like phpmyadmin to administer my local MySQL database, one for the production releases of the websites I'm developing and one for the development releases of the websites I'm developing. The local webapps need to be on a Linux filesystem. The other directories have to be on a FAT32 partition because sometimes I need to access them from Windows.

And I need webapps in some but not in all of these websites.

So it's a lot easier to install (emerge) the webapps once and then copy them by hand than automatically with such a webapp-config. But one of Gentoo's advantages is portage's "version control system".

So I can only repeat myself. webapp-config MUST become OPTIONAL!

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## frilled

 *cyberpatrol wrote:*   

> So I can only repeat myself. webapp-config MUST become OPTIONAL!

 

Please, please, please.

Forcing the user to do it "the way it is done best" is the windoze way...

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## Loki|muh

it's like using debian :/

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## Dr_b_

I too Loathe webapp-config, i can't figure out how to disable it, with -vhost useflags doing nothing.  

My web "apps" dont get installed in my webdir, they get put somewhere else, and im not running virtual hosts, so i really really do not understand why it wouldnt place my apps in the www dir.  So what you all are saying, carlo, is that i have to install the application twice.  Once with emerge, then again, with this byzantine webapp-config "tool" which is supposed to make things easier.  

I have a better idea, how about I just 1) install them manually, thus defeating the excellent package manager portage, or 2) use a distro that doesn't force you to use webapp-config.

This is Tyranny, and the people will revolt.Last edited by Dr_b_ on Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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## frilled

 *Dr_b_ wrote:*   

> My web "apps" dont get installed in my webdir, they get put somewhere else, and im not running virtual hosts, so i really really do not understand why it wouldnt place my apps in the www dir.
> 
> 

 

Yes... I had one app installed twice by webapp-config. Possibly was a hardlink instead of a softlink or it really got copied, but one thing is sure: it was ugly as hell.

 *Quote:*   

> So what you all are saying, carlo, is that i have to install the application twice.  Once with emerge, then again, with this byzantine webapp-config "tool" which is supposed to make things easier.

 

What would that offer you? Just install the tarball of the app and be done for. Simply ignore portage for that one and look at it as being "just data".

Unfortunately, gentoo seems to be slowly moving the same way the other bloat-me-like-windoze distros are going :-/

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## Dr_b_

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> What would that offer you? Just install the tarball of the app and be done for. Simply ignore portage for that one and look at it as being "just data". 

 

It wouldn't offer me anything, that's why im not going to use it and do it manually.  I was merely stating the process i would go thru to install, for example, a "webapp".  

 *Quote:*   

> 
> 
> Unfortunately, gentoo seems to be slowly moving the same way the other bloat-me-like-windoze distros are going :-/

 

I agree, trying to automate and perfect and dummify this process just for the minority of vhost users, who may or may not need this or like it is not good when you force everyone (the majority) who do not run vhosts, to use it.  

I can sum up what webapp-config is similar to:  Wizards for Web Application.   

What are they going to "webappify" next?  Friends, and you are my friends, this a is a good joke carried too far, we need to let our voices be heard.  I'll probably get banned now from the forums for saying something bad about this "George Bush Webapp".    The mentality i've seen expressed about it is similar to the presidents "You are either with us (Webapp-config) or against us" and tough if you don't like it.

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## frilled

LOL.

Slightly off boundaries   :Cool:   but there is some truth in what you say. I urge the developers to rethink how webapp-config can be made optional.

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## cyberpatrol

This could be done very easily.

Just create a new USE flag named webapp, webappconf or something like that. If this USE flag is set then webapps are installed with webapp-config as it is done at the moment. If this USE flag is not set then webapps are just installed once in a predefined directory (e.g. /var/www/localhost by default) as it was done before webapp-config.

Maybe for the second case (if this USE flag is not set) there could be made an option to define the installation directory for webapps. Maybe through an environment variable or a config file or something like that.

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## frilled

Agreed.

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## Carlo

 *Dr_b_ wrote:*   

> this a is a good joke carried too far, we need to let our voices be heard.

 

That's the point everyone seems to ignore. I say it again: Non of the webapp developers reads anything in forums.g.o. You lament here for nothing.

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## cyberpatrol

Then this is a very good time for the webapp developers to change this.

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## Genone

 *cyberpatrol wrote:*   

> Then this is a very good time for the webapp developers to change this.

 

Tell them. The adress for the mailing list has been posted at least once in this thread.

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## Wilhelm

webapp-config is a kewl tool once one takes the time to figure out two things

1. /etc/vhosts/webapp-config

2. webapp-config -I phpmyadmin 2.6.0_p3 -d phpmyadmin -h localhost

But people are conservative and don't like new things. I bet you all hated emerge when it first arrived.

Linux needs user-friendlyness since it is getting unmanagable with all those packages. Portage is easy for installing programs. webapp-config is equivalently easy for installing webb-applications.

So to all that hate webapp-config RTFM!!!  :Wink: .

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## tecknojunky

I agree with all that you said.  Your are forgetting just one thing that is what I find the most annoying, it's that webapp-config is imposed to me.  I really genuinely gave it a shot, but I would just like to be able to opt-out of it and still beneficiate portage's ability to notice me when a new version is in.

btw, before Gentoo, I was using a slackware base on which I was compiling sources all by myself.  Portage and it's dependencies checking was a blessing.  I would have hoped that it remain more of a tool converging the distros, rather than distinguish itself as a distro on it's own, but that's another story  :Wink: 

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## Chris W

You have a couple of options:Turn on USE=vhost and never run webapp-config yourself.   In this arrangement web apps will install to a holding area and you can manually complete installation into your favourite location.   "emerge -pu world" will notify you when a new web application rev is released allowing you to update it.

Remove vhost from USE and ignore webapp-config.  Emerge-ing a web app will install it into the holding area and put a copy into the /var/www/localhost directory structure just like the old-style web app ebuilds (only more consistently).  "emerge -pu world" will  notify you when a new web application revision is released and allow you to update if you choose.  Either way, you never have to run webapp-config.  The second option is opting out, I really cannot see the fuss.

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## cyberpatrol

 *Chris W wrote:*   

> The second option is opting out, I really cannot see the fuss.

 

No, the second option is not opting out. Opting out means that webapp-config is not being used and not being installed. The second option doesn't mean that webapp-config is not being used and not being installed. With the second option webapp-config is still used and installed but it installs the webapps first into its own directory (/usr/share/webapp-config I think) and then copies them automatically into the destination directory (/var/www/localhost) so you have them installed twice which takes unnecessary diskspace and makes the whole thing unnecessarily more complicated. Another problem is that webapp-config somehow manages the webapp's config files and it's not really documented how this is be done and which config files in which directories have to be changed.

Webapp-config maybe good if someone uses many vhosts and saves these vhosts in a consistent directory structure (e.g. /var/www/<domainname>/...). For everyone else webapp-config is just far too complicated and wastes unnecessarily disk space.

Another problem is that it's not really documented. And, please, don't tell me about the manpage again. It's only understandable for the webapp developers and maybe for people who have time for days to RTFM and read between the lines and to do many trial and error installations.

Why is it such a problem just to make a new USE flag which tells portage to install and to use webapp-config or not to install and to use webapp-config?

And why must people be forced to use such a program if there are so many people who don't need such a program and who only have problems and disadvantages and no advantage of it?

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## stuherbert

Please understand that Portage simply isn't capable of correctly installing web-based packages on its own.

Best regards,

Stu

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## LucyC

Hi cyberpatrol,

 *cyberpatrol wrote:*   

> 
> 
> With the second option webapp-config is still used and installed but it installs the webapps first into its own directory (/usr/share/webapp-config I think) and then copies them automatically into the destination directory (/var/www/localhost) so you have them installed twice which takes unnecessary diskspace and makes the whole thing unnecessarily more complicated. 
> 
> 

 

This is incorrect. webapp-config does hardlink or softlink the files. Hardlinking is the default. So it is not installed twice.

 *cyberpatrol wrote:*   

> 
> 
> Why is it such a problem just to make a new USE flag which tells portage to install and to use webapp-config or not to install and to use webapp-config?
> 
> 

 

Because using the already existing USE flag vhosts has the same result. Ok, it uses webapp-config but why does it matter if it results in exactly (except one additional hard link,... wohoo, beware   :Wink:  ) as you would get  if you would not use webapp-config?

I understand that the documentation is not that easy to read but if you really, really, really want to make webapp-config go away you should probably try to read the manual. Else the responses of the developers might be as short as the one from stu above.

Regards

Lucy

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## cyberpatrol

 *LucyC wrote:*   

> This is incorrect. webapp-config does hardlink or softlink the files. Hardlinking is the default. So it is not installed twice.

 

The point with the hardlinks is only correct if webapp-config and the vhosts are on the same file system. If they are on different file systems than it is installed twice because then the webapps are copied.

 *LucyC wrote:*   

> Because using the already existing USE flag vhosts has the same result. Ok, it uses webapp-config but why does it matter if it results in exactly (except one additional hard link,... wohoo, beware   ) as you would get  if you would not use webapp-config?

 

This also is not correct, too. See above.

 *LucyC wrote:*   

> I understand that the documentation is not that easy to read but if you really, really, really want to make webapp-config go away you should probably try to read the manual.

 

First there's not really a manual ("only" a GLEP and a manpage) for webapp-config. And by reading a documentation which is hard to understand such a program doesn't go away.  :Wink: 

 *LucyC wrote:*   

> Else the responses of the developers might be as short as the one from stu above.

 

Probably you also should read this thread:

https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=243729

I guess he didn't want to post it twice.  :Wink: 

And if there's an archive of the gentoo-web-user mailing list (I didn't find one) you probably should read Stus very friendly answer to my mail there.

And I could imagine that webapp-config could be or maybe will be improved in future, so that it fit's the need or wishes of both sides.  :Wink: 

Another suggestion:

There are two threads about webapp-config. Couldn't we all switch to the thread https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=243729 and close this thread? Because it's not that efficient reading and posting in two threads parallel and Stu has answered there very detailed and asked to post questions there.

After reading Stu's postings and thinking again about webapp-config and the discussions here in the forum I think the question shouldn't be "How to dump webapp-config?" or "webapp-config: aye or nay?" anymore but "How could webapp-config be improved?" or something similar.  :Wink: 

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## gilxa1226

 *stuherbert wrote:*   

> Please understand that Portage simply isn't capable of correctly installing web-based packages on its own.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Stu

 

How so... I've run gentoo from pretty much the beginning and I've never had a problem with portage installing web-based packages.  Even the documentation written on this doesn't say that is the reason for webapp, instead it says the reason for webapp is because the ebuild dev's weren't standardizing where they were putting the files for web-based packages.  As I'm typing this I'm sitting on minute 20 of a 

```
 /usr/sbin/webapp-config -I -h localhost -u root -d /phpgroupware phpg

roupware 0.9.16.005
```

wondering why this is 1) taking so long, and why when I installed this once 2 years ago it installed fine without having to deal with webapp.

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## Wilhelm

You probably know this but i'll say it anyway.

Webapp-config should be used by people with the "vhosts" use flag. If you don't have "vhosts" set you don't need to use webapp-config.

Webapp-config makes updating, installing and removing of webbased packages for ALL you virtual hosts easy. It's mere purpose is to allow you to migrate versions of webbased packages without hindering the users and maintaining security. Also if a user borks up his/her squirrelmail a mere webapp command can debork it.

If you have only 1 website, using webapp-config (and the vhosts use flag) is surely more effort.

I don't know why people can have problems with webapp-config since it made life for me very much easier and i did not have to modify my current system to integrate it. My setup uses custom directories etc and isn't straight forward. I only had to edit /etc/vhosts/* to get it all working fabuously.

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## cyberpatrol

 *Wilhelm wrote:*   

> Webapp-config should be used by people with the "vhosts" use flag. If you don't have "vhosts" set you don't need to use webapp-config.

 

No, you are still wrong. Even if "vhosts" use flag is not set you have to use webapp-config because webapp-config still is a dependency of the webapp ebuilds. Even if you don't have "vhosts" in your use flags and you don't have virtual hosts webapp-config is installed.

 *Wilhelm wrote:*   

> Webapp-config makes updating, installing and removing of webbased packages for ALL you virtual hosts easy. It's mere purpose is to allow you to migrate versions of webbased packages without hindering the users and maintaining security. Also if a user borks up his/her squirrelmail a mere webapp command can debork it.

 

These are advantages for webapp-config if you have virtual hosts. But if you don't have virtual hosts it doesn't make any difference with borking or with security if webapps are first installed into /usr/share/webapps and then copied into /var/www/localhost/htdocs or if webapps are directly installed into /var/www/localhost/htdocs.

 *Wilhelm wrote:*   

> If you have only 1 website, using webapp-config (and the vhosts use flag) is surely more effort.

 

If you have only one website then it's just a waste of harddisk space if webapps first are installed into /usr/share/webapps and then copied into /var/www/localhost/htdocs. And, please, don't start again the absurd discussion about copying and hard linking. My directories /var and /usr have ever been, are and will ever be on different partitions. And I guess there are many other people who are having these directories on different partitions.

 *Wilhelm wrote:*   

> I don't know why people can have problems with webapp-config since it made life for me very much easier and i did not have to modify my current system to integrate it. My setup uses custom directories etc and isn't straight forward. I only had to edit /etc/vhosts/* to get it all working fabuously.

 

And I still don't understand why webapp-config can't be made optional. Ok, I don't have a problem with installing webapp-config but if I have to install it as a dependency for webapps then I don't understand why webapp-config can't install webapps directly into /var/www/localhost/htdocs if "vhosts" useflag is not set. Why do webapps still have to be installed twice with "vhosts" disabled?

As said before, please, don't answer something about hardlinking and copying. It should be no problem for the developers to change webapp-config so that it doesn't create the directory /usr/share/webapps and installs the webapps directly into the directory /var/www/localhost/htdocs if "vhosts" is not set. Maybe it can be any other directory which could be set in webapp-configs config file in /etc/vhosts.

And, please, don't understand me wrong. I'm seeing the advantages of webapp-config for people who have virtual hosts and/or have the directories /var and /usr on the same partition. But why can't the webapp-config developers be coming up to meet the wishes of people who don't have vhosts and/or have the directories /var and /usr on different partitions?

I guess if this would be done then there will be no more discussions about webapp-config. And I also guess that noone has a problem with installing the small webapp-config but the people have a problem with installing it first into /usr/share/webapps and then into /var/www/localhost/htdocs. This is completely unnecessary if you don't have virtual hosts. I don't see any reasons why it should not be possible also for webapp-config to install webapps directly into /var/www/localhost/htdocs if there are no virtual hosts.

----------

