# How are LCDs with 25ms response time?

## mhodak

Guys,

I am thinking of buying LCD. I have seen nice ones for quite reasonable price that have response time of 25ms. Is this good response time? Is this enough for playing movies or for ocassional gaming? I am not a big gamer, I spend about an hour a week playing TORCS (3D car racing game), should this game be playable on LCD with 25ms response time?

Thanks.

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## Deranger

Well, 25ms should be pretty playable...I am getting 12ms 19" TFT this week  :Razz: 

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## Archangel1

I don't notice any ghosting on my LCD, which is apparently 25ms. This seems to be a bit atypical though; I've heard enough people complaining about it on 25ms panels.

I'd suggest having a look in the store before you buy one. If you're buying it over an internet, see if you can find a similar one in a store to play with.

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## mhodak

 *Oktane wrote:*   

> Well, 25ms should be pretty playable...I am getting 12ms 19" TFT this week 

 

If 25ms is "pretty playable", why are you getting 12ms? Is response time noticable outside gaming? 

And what is TFT?

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## PrakashP

"response time" is usually just marketing and doesn't say much about "playability". usually only black-white (or vice versa) changes are messured (while setting contrast to full...) and this seldomly happens in games...

It rather depends on the panel type. An IPS panel is usally better though response times are slower on the paper. An 12ms panel is not necesarrily better than a 30ms one...

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## Deranger

 *PrakashKC wrote:*   

> "response time" is usually just marketing and doesn't say much about "playability". usually only black-white (or vice versa) changes are messured (while setting contrast to full...) and this seldomly happens in games...
> 
> It rather depends on the panel type. An IPS panel is usally better though response times are slower on the paper. An 12ms panel is not necesarrily better than a 30ms one...

 

That's very true. Paper are just paper. Same goes for the PSUs, low quality 500W could be much crappier than a high quality 350W PSU.

 *mhodak wrote:*   

>  *Oktane wrote:*   Well, 25ms should be pretty playable...I am getting 12ms 19" TFT this week  
> 
> If 25ms is "pretty playable", why are you getting 12ms? Is response time noticable outside gaming? 
> 
> And what is TFT?

 

Well, TFT LCD. So we were talking about the same thing  :Wink:  I am getting it because it's supposed to be better  :Razz:  Personally, I don't care if it's 12/25/30ms because I hardly play any games or watch movies with my computer.

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## iulianpojar

Hey , I am using an 15" LCD with 25ms responce time dispaly for about 3 years , and i never had gaming issues with it .

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## mhodak

Thanks guys.

One more stupid question though: Since resolution fo LCD monitor is primarily given by number of pixels, does LCD work OK in the text mode (plain console 80x25, or in different mode (with or without framebuffer)).

Also, switching from X to console (ALT+F1 etc) also works fine, right?

Thanks.

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## chunderbunny

Yeah, LCDs work fine an any resolution up their native resolution, although they look a bit crap in most resolutions. Aart from that, they're just like any other monitor.

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## ewan.paton

unless space is a real issue get a 21inch or bigger crt and save a bundle, im not sure all the probs of veiwing angle etc have been solved yet. hell for the same money as a 19" ttf you could get a 21" crt for games, a vid card with tvout and a widescreen tv

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## mhodak

That is a good point. LCDs seem overprized compared to CRTs. 

For me, the main reason for consdering buying an LCD is that it is supposedly easier on eyes. I spend most of my day staring into computer display, so I figured that having display that is  easier on eyes may actually be worth the price difference.

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## Deranger

I agree, LCD is much easier on the eyes. When you try LCD, you won't never go back  :Wink: 

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## Archangel1

 *Oktane wrote:*   

> I agree, LCD is much easier on the eyes. When you try LCD, you won't never go back 

 

Word. Mine's wonderful - I've never seen a CRT look even close to that good.

They are better on the eyes, but I don't have a lot of time for that having seen the number of people that use their monitors at 60Hz - can't they feel their eyes melting?

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## PrakashP

pro CRT: all kind of resolutions look better, better (more) colours (for preprinting, you need CRTs still), better response, no viewing angle problem

pro LCD: (all in native resolution) sharpness (no CRT comes even close to this), flatness, no geometry problems, no convergence problems, no flicker problems (except backlight, which could still exhibit 50/60 Hz of power source), much smaller and lighter and much more energy saving

I never want to go back to CRT...

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## DaleNixon

I have a dell ultrasharp 1901fp with 25ms response time and gaming is fine with it.  I play the unreal tournaments, dooms, quakes, etc. As well as playstation games in epsxe and dreamcast games via the vga port.  At least for this display with this refresh rate I am satisfied.  The only super annoying thing about my LCD in linux is that the motherfscking nvidia drivers don't support DPMS on LCDs.

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## PrakashP

What is the problem of DPMS? My desktop LCD goes off as expected...

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## DaleNixon

Seriously?  Mine just goes black... I don't get the actual powersave mode where the power light goes amber.  The nvidia readme confirms this:

 *Quote:*   

>   o DPMS and Flat Panel
> 
>         DPMS modes "suspend" and "standby" do not work correctly on a
> 
>         flat panel display.  The screen becomes blank instead of the
> ...

 

If you have this working I'd be really curious to see how.

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## PrakashP

Well, I actually have no "suspend" and "sleep" mode, but the screen goes into powersaving. Of course it could be, that it actually is not DPMS, but simply blanking. But the screens I have (one Benq and one Philips) are smart enough to just shut off and come back when I move the mouse or alike.

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## timbo

At work here I have a Samsung SyncMaster 153v with the following spec's;

 15" Analog TFT-LCD monitor

 250 cd/m² Brightness

 350:1 Contrast Ratio

 140º/120º (H/V) Viewing Angles

 <25ms Response Time

 VESA compliant

 Available in Ivory or Silver

Basically it's crap, when things are not moving it's ok but if you scroll up or down etc it jumps instead of scrolling smoothly, I hate it.

Regards

Tim

 :Cool: 

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## DaleNixon

PrakashKC:  Are the monitors truly in a low power mode?  Does it take a few seconds for them to brighten up again when you move your mouse?

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## PrakashP

@DaleNixon

Yes, backlight goes off and LED goes orange.

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## tripmcneely187

I second the LCD crowd, I just got a Dell 2001FP (20.1 inch) with a 16 ms response time and love it.  Way easier on the eyes, especially after long hours at a lan party  :Smile: 

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## DaleNixon

PrakashKC:  Are your flatpanels hooked up DVI or VGA?

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## DaleNixon

Well... If anyone's interested, I got my monitor to go into low power mode... sortof.  I followed the guide in this thread:  https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=110648&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=virtual+console+dpms&start=0

The monitor really only goes into a low power state with the "off" mode of dpms.  I'm not sure if I'm explaining this correctly, so allow me to break it down:

```
xset dpms force suspend
```

The screen goes black but the power light is still green.

```
xset dpms force standby
```

The screen goes black but the power light is still green.

```
xset dpms force off
```

The screen goes totally black and the power light glows amber.

I told xscreensaver to use power management and set the "Off after XX minutes" option to 30.  My monitor now goes into what appears to be low power mode 30 minutes after the screensaver kicks in.  The only really suspicious thing is how quickly it can come out of this low power state.  It leads me to believe the monitor is not really in standby at all.  Oh well... at least I've made some progress.

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## PrakashP

I've hooked it up via VGA.

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## desertstalker

I though the dpms settings just killed the backlight, if so why would it take any time to come back on?

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## DaleNixon

I dunno... perhaps you are right.  My wife's 17" FP wakes up instantly as well and that's under WinXP.  All I really care about is the backlight being off so I'm happy.  My two 21" dell flatpanels at work take a few seconds to come out of low power mode, but those are very old models.

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## DaleNixon

mhodak:  To answer your original question about LCDs, I love mine!  Staring at one all day is so much easier on the eyes than a CRT.  Make sure you hook up the monitor DVI if you can.  Even if you can't, it'll still be awesome.

I think the worst or most noticeable ghosting happens in 2D scrolling games.  I was playing Parasite Eve via epsxe last night and I did notice that the backgrounds blur a little when they scroll.  I only noticed because I was looking for it though, and it definitely doesn't make the game unplayable or unenjoyable.

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## mhodak

 *DaleNixon wrote:*   

> mhodak:  To answer your original question about LCDs, I love mine!  Staring at one all day is so much easier on the eyes than a CRT.  Make sure you hook up the monitor DVI if you can.  Even if you can't, it'll still be awesome.
> 
> I think the worst or most noticeable ghosting happens in 2D scrolling games.  I was playing Parasite Eve via epsxe last night and I did notice that the backgrounds blur a little when they scroll.  I only noticed because I was looking for it though, and it definitely doesn't make the game unplayable or unenjoyable.

 

What was the response time of that monitor?

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## DaleNixon

25ms

And to answer another one of your questions:  <ctrl><alt>F1 etc. works fine.  The virtual console switching is actually much faster than on a CRT because LCDs seem take less time than CRTs when switching resolutions... Also, you don't hear that nasty "clicking" sound.   :Smile: 

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## den_RDC

 *tripmcneely187 wrote:*   

> I second the LCD crowd, I just got a Dell 2001FP (20.1 inch) with a 16 ms response time and love it.  Way easier on the eyes, especially after long hours at a lan party 

 

I just ordered 2 of those Dell 2001FP's ... i hope they will be as good as everybody says they are. My current monitor setup was getting a bit old ( 1993 21" CRT's )

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