# new G4 iBooks

## ozonator

Apple has just released a new iteration of the iBook.  Looks generally like an improvement all around -- without much change in pricing, OS X 10.3, USB 2.0, better Radeon, slightly more battery capacity, slightly faster system bus (133 MHz) with DDR RAM, DVD-ROM/CD-RW on all models.  And, no more Airport, only Airport Extreme -- Broadcom-based 802.11g, which currently doesn't work in Linux.

This, I'm sure, was an inevitable change, but still:  the iBook has for a while been a machine I'd recommend to anyone interested in a laptop that runs Linux, and which I would have purchased again without hesitation.  (Everything works in Linux, no Microsoft tax, small, good design, good battery life, cheap.)  Now, it's a harder sell -- for me, at least, the Linux-supported integrated wireless was a big reason I got one, and not a Thinkpad or a PowerBook 12"; besides, it's significantly cheaper than either of those, for a similarly small machine.  In a way, this is analogous to the situation with Centrino -- the Centrino laptops look nice, but at best, we seem to hear that Intel is "working" on Linux drivers for their wireless card; at worst, it's not clear when, if ever, any drivers will appear.

Any thoughts?  Is there any other Linux-supported wireless card that might work in the Airport Extreme slot?  Or, a question different from the usual "what laptop should I get for Linux" questions:  are there any good small, light (5 lbs or less), well-built laptops with good battery life (4-5h or more) that have excellent Linux support (integrated wireless preferred), and that are also inexpensive and appropriate as a complement to a desktop machine?  I couldn't find one last time I looked; the few possible candidates I found were at least a lot more expensive than the iBook.  I'm not asking for too much, am I?    :Wink: 

----------

## hbmartin

Too bad Apple is (in general) pretty nasty to Linux.

I guess they're just stuck on their OS being the dopest thing ever they don't want anything else running it.

You know they sill haven't released the technical info needed to get the m68k floppy drives working under Linux   :Rolling Eyes: 

Harold

----------

## hbmartin

It's also worth noting that this marks the end of the G3 processor after six years.

Harold

----------

## dizzogg

man, that really sucks that airport extreme doesn't work in linux...  I've been drooling over a 12" Ibook all day today.  Could you just get a regular 80211.b airport and use that????

----------

## ozonator

 *dizzogg wrote:*   

> man, that really sucks that airport extreme doesn't work in linux...  I've been drooling over a 12" Ibook all day today.  Could you just get a regular 80211.b airport and use that????

 

Unfortunately, I don't think you can -- the cards are a slightly different size, if I remember correctly, so one won't fit in a slot designed for the other.  This means it's only the PowerBooks that have PCMCIA slots (15" and 17") that have flexible wireless options.    :Crying or Very sad: 

It's hard to know who to blame most here.  Apple, for choosing Broadcom hardware for airport extreme?  Or Broadcom, for being so resistant to providing specs so that people might develop their own drivers?

I have seen rumours that Broadcom will eventually come out with Linux drivers, but they certainly haven't yet, and there's no guarantee that they wouldn't be binary-only -- and just like nVidia releases, for x86 only.  There's also a commercial product that allows using the Windows drivers -- but again, x86 only.  Finally, there is some sort of effort to try to come up with a driver for 802.11g Broadcom projects -- http://sourceforge.net/projects/linux-bcom4301/ -- but that project, too, hasn't borne fruit yet.

So, the news is not good; it's only the wireless that's an issue, but for many, that's a big issue.  On the other hand, you might try to look at the bright side here -- the previous iteration of the iBooks are great machines with full Linux functionality, and they're likely cheaper than ever right about now.    :Wink: 

----------

## dr_lha

As an owner of a brand new 12" PB I'll happily blame Broadcom. Apple makes computers and an OS, so shouldn't really have to worry about whether open source drivers are available for their hardware. As long as OSX works great on it I think they're doing their job.

I was wondering for a temporary solution if there's any USB WiFi adapter that works under linux that could be used. A little clunky maybe, but would certainly solve most of my problems running Linux on my PB at home (where I'm all WiFi).

----------

## MacMasta

I would just like to note that you should *try* OS X (esp panther) before immediately putting linux on it; for the laptop niche, I think it's an even better way of doing things than linux.

See also: Ports for Darwin, Fink, etc; it's not like you can't use it as unix.

~Mac~

----------

## FlashLight

Do we need to run OSX or can we just run Darwin with XFree86? I realize this isn't exactly a Linux question, but I'd be happy with any UNIX variant (that doesn't have tons of eye candy). Does the Airport Extreme driver only work with OSX or would it work on just Darwin? That's what kinda confuses me. If it would work on Darwin, which is based on BSD, why isn't Net/OpenBSD able to support it?

----------

## ozonator

MacMasta -- very good point:  OS X is an excellent alternative, and I'm sure many people would be pleased to use it for all their *nix needs, even if they're also comfortable with Linux (I certainly don't hesitate to recommend it).  And, yes, definitely try it for a while.  I must confess, though, that having used OS X (Jaguar) for a few months exclusively on my laptop before installing Linux, I'm now using Linux most of the time, with OS X mostly in mac-on-linux.  Hard to say why exactly.  Gentoo is faster (response just seems snappier), and I really miss sloppy focus in OS X; but, on the other hand, OS X works beautifully and easily (handling multple network locations especially nicely), and some software is uniquely nice (NetNewsWire is one example, though since discovering Straw, I don't miss it as much).  Maybe I'm just being cheap; less than 5 months after I got my iBook, I don't feel like paying ~$CDN 180 (more than 10% of what I paid for the machine) for a system upgrade, which I'll need to ensure I keep getting security updates, etc. (yes, I know, there's new functionality, but I don't need that; having seen how Apple no longer updates 10.1.x even with basic security updates, I expect the situation with 10.2 will be the same soon).  Or, maybe in the end I run Linux not because there are any particular shortcomings with OS X, but because I just prefer Linux.  Just like Linux users resenting the "Microsoft tax" claim they only want to buy good hardware and then choose what to run, it doesn't seem odd that people might want to be able to choose terrific hardware like Apple laptops and then run Linux on it if they want.  No, I don't expect Apple to cater specifically to those needs (they sell and support only OS X, after all); but given my preferences, I'm still a bit disappointed if Linux support worsens in new models.

FlashLight -- good question about Darwin drivers for the Airport Extreme.  I don't know much about Darwin, and I don't know if those drivers are part of the Darwin project, or OS X only.  Anyone else know?

----------

## alphatronics

Honestly, if I was going to plunk down the money on an Apple, I'd use their OS.

If I wanted to use Linux, I'd get an IBM-compatible laptop for less money.

----------

## panzerdampf

Someone checked the new wrapper-api from linuxant?

Maybe the airport extreme works with it?

----------

## tuxlover

 *panzerdampf wrote:*   

> Someone checked the new wrapper-api from linuxant?
> 
> Maybe the airport extreme works with it?

 

They're only for x86. Start complaining to them  :Smile: 

----------

## jcmorris

Wow, it is funny, I was gonna post something about the iBooks, and saw this post! They are very attractive, and through my school I can get a discount. Tell me, how is the performance of the 800 MHz G4 compared to, say, a PIII or Athlon 800 MHz? I have no idea what the performance of these would be like.

jcm

----------

## MacMasta

My own experiences (girlfriend's tibook) is that they are not particularly good number-crunchers; if you want to run Seti, this is not your best bet.

But for "day-to-day" tasks, they are quite fast; windows open quickly, documents render quickly, safari (and camino) are hella fast, and so on.

So: depends on what you want to do with it.

~Mac~

----------

## jcmorris

Yeah, all I would be using it for is taking notes in class and maybe slight entertainment on the road.  I really like OS X, too.  Right now, I'm typing this up on a 700MHz G4 in my uni's computer lab.  I'd probably dual-boot with Linux.  But even for 700 MHz, as far as desktop speed is concerned, it is not that much different from my Athlon 2200.

jcm

----------

## ozonator

 *alphatronics wrote:*   

> Honestly, if I was going to plunk down the money on an Apple, I'd use their OS.
> 
> If I wanted to use Linux, I'd get an IBM-compatible laptop for less money.

 

So, as I asked in my original post, can you recommend a small, light (5 lbs. or less) x86 laptop with good battery life (4+ hours), integrated wireless, fully functional in Linux, and a price comparable to that of an iBook?  I don't know of any.

That's what was behind my post at the start of this thread:  if I could have found such a machine -- or, if I didn't care about having a 6+ lb. laptop -- I might have gotten it instead of an iBook.  I did find great x86 laptops that would have met my criteria, but all were at least several hundred dollars more expensive; those in a similar price range fell short in other ways (too big/heavy, no integrated wireless, poor Linux support, etc.).

As for speed, I can say that my 800 MHz iBook is plenty fast for typical work (I'm not a number cruncher, nor do I do any CPU/GPU intensive gaming).  Gentoo seems snappier than OS X, too.

----------

## MacMasta

It's tangential, but re: "gentoo seems faster":

Awhile back, somebody (anandtech, maybe...) put SuSE on an Xserve and benchmarked it against OS X on an Xserve; SuSE won by a fair margin...

Given that gentoo would be faster than SuSE, it seems reasonable that gentoo would be faster than OS X, too.

Granted, that was on an old version of OS X, but I think the relationship still holds.

~Mac~

----------

