# computer won't POST

## MADcow

today i was putting a fresh gentoo install on my server (the old install was 1 year old and badly cluttered)... i was rebooting when i accidentally tapped the front of the box with my foot.

normally, this isn't a problem. it's under my desk -- it gets tapped a lot. it's been shipped across the pacific ocean. it's been really tapped.

this time it was a problem, though. i heard the monitor slip into powersave mode, and the screen (of course) went blank.

this was right at the beginning of the boot (remember, i was rebooting), so i checked the debug LEDs. they said "initializing video ram" and never left that.

CRAP! i thought. i hit the reset button. same thing.

so i reached in and reseated the graphics card (an AGP slot ATI radeon 9200).

then powered on.

this time the debug LEDs were ALL RED.

that supposedly (according to the manual) means "processor damaged or processor not installed correctly"

so maybe i accidentally put too much pressure on the heatsink and cracked the die?

notes about my system:

dual AMD MP 2600, about 1 year and 3 months old, custom built from parts (which means i can't go crying to "Dell," so you guys HAVE to save me!!), and with a ghetto power rig

"what's a ghetto power rig, you ask?"

well, the power supply wasn't exactly for the right motherboard (oops!) - it had a 24 pin MOBO power cable, but mine took a 20 pin, so i got a converter, which was basically a wire with 20 pins on one side and 24 on the other.

the AGP/CPU power on the board was 4 pin, but the powersupply provided 6 pins, so i got a converter for standard molex to 4 pin AGP/CPU power - again, just a wire.

so maybe that second wire came loose? i checked the connection over, and over again. unplugged, replugged. no go.

plllleeeease fix this! i have no money for new parts! maybe we can find what is broken so i can just replace that...

please, please help!

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## eelke

Its probably best by starting to measure all outputs of the powersupply.

Then build a minimal system, 1 cpu, no memory, no video or other expansion card, no drives.

Power on. It should report you have no memory using the leds or some beeps.

If it fails try the other CPU / socket. If it works add memory and test. Now it will probably report no video. Add video card and test. If this works its probaly a good moment to add the other CPU. Continue with incremental building and testing.

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## NeddySeagoon

MADcow,

Do you have a voltmeter to check the PSU voltages ?

Your gettoo PSU sounds like bad news. The extra pins are for load sharing. Maybe your PSU can't cope with the load.

That the LEDs light at all is a good sign.

Do the HDDs spin up and the CD-ROM spin up then stop and do the fans all run?

The fans and drive spin motors operate off the +12v, so that would indicate that the 12V is OK.

The CD-ROM drive logic runs off the +5V, so the stopping spinning is a good sign.

Check that all the cables are properly seated.

If that doesn't help, remove all the plug in cards, including the video card.

Remove all the memory except for a single stick. Was it properly seated. Try differenet single sticks of memory.

Normally, CPU failure is accompanied with a horrible burning smell, which you will recognise the first time you smell it and never forget.

There are other tests too but they involve doing things that are not immediately reversible. I can post those later if needed.

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## MADcow

if i remove eveything but one CPU, i get RGRR, which is "testing ram," and a bunch of beeps that i don't understand.

that's a good place to hang, because there is no RAM.

that's somewhere...

i'd like to test the PSU's voltage, but i have no voltmeter.

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## ephex

sounds like your mobo is dead...   :Sad: 

i would keep testing it before you give up. but if it keeps putting out random error messages, i would think it's the motherboard [or you have extremely bad luck  :Wink: ]

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## MADcow

sorry, NeddySeagoon, i didn't see your post.

look at my above -- it was a response to the first answer on the thread.

about the burning smell, i had a P4 die on me a while ago, so yeah. i know it...

i just figured... dunno  :Razz: 

the harddisks spin up (i can hear them click). there are 3 now. maybe that did it -- i installed a third on friday

maybe the load was too much.

the cd drives (a CDRW and DVDRW) seem ok.. their lights flicker and i can open and close the trays.

all fans come on (10 case fans, one fan for the AGP card that is connected with a 3 pan (another ghetto rig -- it's an old CPU fan))

so..

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## MADcow

ephex:  DAMMIT NO NO NO NO NO!

 :Razz: 

if my mobo's dead, i'm SOOOO screwed

they're like still expensive now. they've gone down like $20 dollars since last year...

ugh. must... find voltmeter.

does radioshack sell voltmeters? there's no compusa/anything here

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## MADcow

wait... WHY would my mobo just DIE?

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## MADcow

cd drives do spin up then stop. HDs also spin up.

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## NeddySeagoon

MADcow,

I was trying to avoid asking you to remove the CPUs just yet. The heat transfer compound on the heatsinks is use once only, so you can't put them back unless you have something else to use to hand.

I'm not sure how your motherboard detects lack of RAM. It can't use the CPU because with no RAM there is no workspace so the BIOS won't run. That probably means your North Bridge is OK.

I doubt the extra HDD was the problem that caused a permanent fail. The PSU will protect itself against gross abuse, like short circuits. You can hear the repeated restarts make them scream. However, IDE drives all spin up at once, which can overload the PSU for the spin up time. As a result, the output voltages fall and strange intermittent boot problems are observed.

When the 'brown-out' gets bad enough, the PSU good signal goes bad and you get another reset. There are pleanty of warning signs from a PSU operting near its limit.

If you are going to try to run with one CPU, it must be in the correct socket. The second CPU isn't started until well into the POST.

You can get your motherboard manual on the Web. It will tell you the beep codes.

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## eelke

 *Quote:*   

> I'm not sure how your motherboard detects lack of RAM. It can't use the CPU because with no RAM there is no workspace so the BIOS won't run. That probably means your North Bridge is OK. 

 

It can use the CPU! The BIOS code is run directly from the ROM and there are enough registers for executing a memory test.

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## NeddySeagoon

eelke,

Most BIOS's that I've taken apart assume the first 64k is good and that they can use it untested for workspace.

The BIOS memory test is more a detection routine. It used to be write a pattern to one location every Kb and read it back. When the test fails, assume you have found the end of RAM.

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## MADcow

NeddySeagoon: it's an MSI (microstar international) K7D Master-L. i have the manual with me... nothing about beep codes.

maybe you could find out how it checks the RAM, though... i have no clue.

about the thermal paste, i've got 2 full tubes of artic silver right here... but i have been running the one without a new coat while testing... i assumed it was fine since there was no load, but what do you think?

also, i know the CPU is in the right slot.. they're labeled on the board's PCB.

and i have tried both CPUs in that slot.

what else to say... i don't think it's browning out because it's 550 watt (600 peak, supposedly), so if it's browning out, something is wrong.

i'm going to radioshack today. what kind of voltmeter should i get, and how should i use it? i assume i need to consult the motherboard's manual (it has all the specs for what voltages each pin connected to the MOBO should be) and make sure the AGP/CPU and mobo power is in spec? can i check the motherboard power at all? it won't boot when it's unplugged.. so how do i do that?

shall i call MSI and request help/RMA?

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## NeddySeagoon

MADcow,

Did you get identical problems when you tried both CPUs in the master /primary slot ?

If not, that hints at a CPU problem. Its unlikely they are both dead.

You may as well get ameter that describes itself as a multimeter. It will be capable of measuring Voltage (volts) Current (Amps) and Resistance (Ohms)

You use it by setting it on a range to measure 12v DC (possibly the 20v range and inserting the test probes down the back of the motherboard to PSU connector. Put one of them in one of the black wires and the other one in each of the different coloured wires in turn.

You should get -12v -5v +3.3v +5v and +12v.

There are two or three oddball ones which are control signals.

PSU good should be a logic high - anything over 2v is probably OK.

PSU on, again a logic high but a different voltage to PSU good.

The +5v Stby will be around +5v but not the same as the main 5v. 

Do not attempt to make any measurements on the current or Ohms ranges. The setup is quire different. 

Long shot:-

Inspect the capacitors (tall tubular electronic components) around the CPU sockets. Any with domed tops (unless they are all domed) or leaking contents at the bottom?

If so the Vcore regulator(s) have died.

Have a friend who can use a soldering iron replace them all.

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## MADcow

i checked the capicators, and they look ok. i can solder, so i could replace one if it's bad... unfortunately, there's nowhere to buy something like that out here.

same errors with each CPU.

will buy and try the voltmeter if i can get out of the house.

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## MADcow

i think i found the problem

 i found a small component that i don't recognize. it looks like a very tiny capacitor...

sitting loose on the bottom of the case.

it's silver, like a miniture capacitor and on top is printed "3H

10

16 V"

there are similar ones on the motherboard

SHIT.

i can't find its home...

note: the ones still attached to the board are labeled (on the PCB) "ecXX"

where X is alphaneumeric, and unique

UPDATE: i think i found its home. it's "ec21" and its under the second PCI slot.

awwe shit. maybe not.. "EC40 and EC41" also have nothing attached.

DAMMIT

EC4 and EC5 are also empty.

and i was wrong. it was PCI4, not 2

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## MADcow

ok. EC4 looks like something was once soldered there. it's about an inch to the left of the AGP slot.

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## MADcow

just solder it back on? or go buy a new one from radioshack?

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## NeddySeagoon

MADcow,

Whats EC4 ?

Whats left?

A few wires sticking out of the board ?

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## MADcow

EC4 is the label on the PCB. i don't know what it means. what's left is 2 little metal contacts with gaps for the capacitors and the +/- orientation on the PCB.

it looks like it was glued on actually, not actually soldered.

long is usually +, and short -, right?

they look about the same length... but one  *might be a little longer*

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## MADcow

AH i found the orientation - the plastic shielding has a narrow edge that fits into the lines drawn on the PCB

should i hold it on and see if it posts? or use some of thise PCB glue my parents have?

UPDATE: SHIIIIT we're out. will radioshack have it?

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## NeddySeagoon

MADcow,

Its unlikely it 'just fell off' Its probably damaged, got hot as a result, then fell off due to the thermal stress. I would not expect putting a damaged part back to make it POST.

Neither am I overly confident that you are looking at the right location.

Could that part have come from another card altogether ?

The orentation is important.

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## MADcow

yes. i'm getting a new one and a multimeter from radioshack in a few minutes.

the orientation i'm sure about now, thanks to the lines, and the location i'm almost positive, because all the other empty ones are smooth, but this one has little square indentations in it where the leads fit.

i could have easily knocked it off with the video card...

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## MADcow

NeddySeagoon i'm back from radioshack. they had no suitable glue or capacitors, but they did have a multimeter.

so i got that.

do you have AIM/MSN? i would be very thankful if you could walk me through the voltage testing so that i don't break anything....

pleasee  :Very Happy: 

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## MADcow

i tested the CPU/AGP power (4pin) and each side measured exactly 12.25 volts...

the mobo's manual says it should be  +12v

so, that's about right, right?

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## MADcow

ok, how do i fix this? what parts are broken?

should i just grab a new motherboard?

or should i just toss out the mobo, CPUs, PSU, and AGP card and buy a dual opteron system?

i've managed to free up $1200 to fix this fucker, so just tell me what you think i should do. Opterons are appealing if the CPUs are fried, because the MP 2600+ isn't available anymore (at least, i can't find it), and nothing below 2600 is acceptable.

and the 2800+ costs as much as an opteron... and MSI's dual opteron board costs as much as MSI's dual MP board...

so, is my powersupply broken? if not, will it simply fry my computer again?

   so should i get a new PSU?

is my motherboard broken?

   go with opterons? 

are my CPUs dead?

 :Crying or Very sad:   :Crying or Very sad:  what do i do???! i need to fix this  :Crying or Very sad:   :Crying or Very sad: 

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## NeddySeagoon

MADcow,

Yes. 12.25v is fine.

I have no idea what is wrong or if your CPUs are still good without a lot of extra testing.

If you get Dual Opterons, get a NUMA board. Anything else is like 1.5 Opterons because CPU 2 has to access memory via CPU 1.

It may be OK if you don't run applications that need all the memory bandwidth they can get.

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## MADcow

thank you for the heads-up about the memory issues. i will take that into consideration.

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## Aman9090

Alec:

I know this is a stupid question, but have you taken everything out of the motherboard and reset the CMOS?

I didn't catch that in this thread - it's always worth a shot  :Smile: 

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## MADcow

Andrew: you always tell me to reset the CMOS...

 :Laughing: 

i'll try that. thanks, man.

GENERAL UPDATE: i am requesting an RMA for my Motherboard from MSI, as their tech support is crap.

in the meantime, i'm buying a cheap AMD board to test my CPU/AGP/PCI/PSU/disks to see the extent of the damage.

this is the board:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-185-010&depa=1

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## Aman9090

Ah, so I guess my old word of advice didn't help any  :Very Happy: 

Well, if I was you I'd find somebody to repair it, but it appears that you don't have anybody around you like that. I still think you may just want to visit one of the IT guys at the many hotels nearby.

But yeah, I guess that's a good idea as well to just buy a crapy-choo mobo and see what's damaged - it may be more economic  :Smile: 

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## MADcow

i found a local computer store. they said that they couldn't help me if it was physically damaged, but they could give me a job  :Very Happy: 

MSI APPROVED MY RMA for the mobo!

yay i just saved like 200 dollars!

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## MADcow

ok. the "test" mobo is here.

with all the same equipment, it will boot. but only with one of the CPUs.

my original CPU2, i think.

so i need a new AMD MP 2600. any ideas?

or keep the good 2600 in that "test" mobo and make that my server, and grab a dualie or single opteron system?

whatever shall i do?

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